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  1. #11
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    IME/IMO the market has definitely softened here! All the dealers have fully stocked lots, including remote overflows. I was with friends last weekend at a GD dealer and then a FR dealer, and no exaggeration that they had two of every model on the lot! MSRPs still really, really high, but both dealers were ready to knock off 25% with no resistance, and I believe 30+% was very doable but our friends weren't ready to pull the trigger because they wanted to compare Montanas. The other thing, I pass one of the largest auctions for used vehicles and campers in the NE routinely. Typically, they'd have 10 to 20 campers. Since last Fall, DOZENS of campers every auction. This is why those dealers aren't interested in trades as they'll sit the lot next to new inventory that needs to go and don't have an easy flip to auction now. Another data point, we also know a couple whose camper flipping business grew 7 fold with the pandemic rush to now being smaller than when they started up in 2018 and have 6 units folks backed out on. I know at least 4 major manufacturers also shutdown production for a spell this winter... Pendulum swung one way, not it's swinging the other, and it'll be interesting to see what the "reset" costs the industry/market.
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
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  2. #12
    Big Traveler
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    I am not at all surprised dealers don't want to take a trade and are encouraging potential new buyers to sell their current RV on their own. I would imagine there is good reason for this practice and submit that the dealers know what they are doing.
    I suspect you're right, or, put another way, right for "right now". They don't want a bunch of unsold inventory, that's true and understandable. But a dealer without good used RV and without a trade in is, long run, putting themselves out of business in favor of the direct model. What exactly do you bring to the table, Mr. Dealer, other than an ability to order an RV from GD? Then when you look at a direct to consumer (no dealer), like the super high end stuff (New Horizons, etc), it seems obvious that GD and other will eventually go that way. Dealers encouraging customers to figure out a sale themselves is, in many ways, encouraging customers to avoid them entirely.

    If I do wind up with a GD for my next RV, it's going to be an ordered unit (I know what I want now; option by option, vs our current/first RV where I wasn't sure what I wanted and didn't). If I sell my RV independent of that transaction; why on earth wouldn't I (here's a hint, I will) just play dealer bingo in a few hundred mile radius? It's going to be purely about the price at that point, don't care what "service" you offer, don't need your trade in, paying cash, what's the lowest you'll go. Play that game across a few dealers, whoever has the lowest number wins.

    In effect, they are encouraging a race to the bottom for prices, making themselves into little more than a parking lot waiting for customer pickup.

    Auto companies have the same problem, which is why you see manufacturers like Ford starting to put a ton of pressure on them. Result is going to be most of the auto dealerships are going to go out of business. Which, even more so than for RV's should almost certainly happen. I've wanted a new F450 for over a year now; I just don't have the energy to play "bingo" across a bunch of dealers so Ford loses the sale, not because I don't want the product, but because the buying experience is so awful. The moment I can order one online, I will; until then, you (Ford) can keep it, you've made it too hard to transact.

  3. #13
    Big Traveler
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    The softening was clear to see for a loooong time. At least in my opinion.
    RVing isn't for everybody.

  4. #14
    Seasoned Camper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    I've wanted a new F450 for over a year now; I just don't have the energy to play "bingo" across a bunch of dealers so Ford loses the sale, not because I don't want the product, but because the buying experience is so awful.
    Don’t bother trying…if you want a 450 with a higher trim level, Ford can’t make it right now. Been there, tried that for most of a year. Add in the whole dealer allocation and priority level management fiasco, and it adds to the aggravation. Seeing a ‘23 model year F450 Platinum might be about as rare as a Yeti sighting.

    Luxe has the direct-to-customer model. Nice coaches…
    Last edited by LMagelitz; 03-02-2023 at 08:10 PM.
    Larry and JoAnna
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  5. #15
    Big Traveler dryfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    Very true. I'm relatively young to own an RV, in my circle of friends around our age, my wife and I are the only RV owners. So we get a lot of questions; how do you like it, I'm considering it, etc. For some of my friends, I strongly encourage them, you'll enjoy it, here are some good brands/things to look for. For the majority of my friends, however, I tell them "It's a whole lot of work/maintenance". The friends who put in their own outlets and know how to swing a hammer, sure, go ahead, it's fun and you'll enjoy it. Those who call an electrician to change a light bulb? You should probably (definitely!) look at another hobby. An RV takes a lot of tools, time, skill to keep well maintained and on the road. Or a WHOLE lot of money to pay someone to do the work and a lot of weeks where the RV is unavailable.

    Also, if you can't park at home, that really changes things (on my recommendation to them). Putting an RV into storage, the costs, the difficulty working on it in a storage facility vs in your home with all your tools. You have a ton of money and don't care if it takes months to fix? Sure, go for it. But that's a pretty small group.
    Every new buyer should read your post before getting into camping!! Excellent advice.
    2020 Reflection 273MK

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott'n'Wendy View Post
    The softening was clear to see for a loooong time. At least in my opinion.
    RVing isn't for everybody.
    Not only is RVing not for everybody but RVing isn't even for everyone who bought an RV during the scamdemic. Those people are screwed. They owe more on their rig than it is worth and there is no easy way out. Their best bet is to hold on to it and GO CAMPING!
    2023 Reflection 297RSTS
    2020 F-250 Power Stroke

  7. #17
    Seasoned Camper
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    Wondering if others are seeing the market soften in their area? We're considering buying a new (either a 410TH or a Luxe) and the quotes we're getting on our 2019 351M we're great, now, not so much. A few dealers in my area "aren't taking trade ins"; they are directing new buyers to RV Trader, sell it yourself. Side note, talk about shooting yourself in the foot! One of the few values that a dealer really brings to the table is their bank account (to buy your RV), space (to store it), and people (to show it). Directing people to sell themselves is just begging more RV manufacturers to go to a direct model.

    Anyway, just wondering if others are seeing the market turn. Interestingly, when I go on RV trader and search my model (351M), similar year/condition models are universally pretty far up there for pricing (median seems to be around 70K). Numbers I'm getting at the one dealer who will do a trade and Camping World (for a straight sale) are both around 50K. So there's a disconnect somewhere, pretty significant one.
    Well, it is according to where you go. Our Grand Design dealer that is local, (which I would not buy from) is not selling anything. Mainly because of the way it is ran, said they were selling about one per week and it is a very large dealership in a large area! But, a friend of mine that is a tech at another dealer down the road says it is crazy! They are selling 8 to 10 a week and the shop is backed up on repairs! So, I would say the good dealers are still selling the bad dealers not so much! I traded trucks about 6 weeks ago, traded in a 6 year old truck with 23,000 miles and they gave me what I gave new for my old truck! Thought it would be a good time to trade!

  8. #18
    Site Sponsor
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    Go to an RV show. The prices are enough to scare away most buyers.

  9. #19
    Site Sponsor TerryH's Avatar
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    Dealerships in my area are jamb packed. When I had our Momentum at my dealer for a checkup a couple of months ago I literally struggled to even find an empty spot big enough to park it. My buddy that's a salesman there told me they are still selling them at a very brisk rate but inventory is being replaced at that same rate. When we bought ours at the end of 2021 there were literally 1/10th as many on the lot. We recently attended the RV show on Kansas City on a Saturday. Could barely get in any unit there because of the size of the crowd. It's an interesting market for sure.
    2021 Momentum 31G
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  10. #20
    Site Sponsor Jerryr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMagelitz View Post
    Don’t bother trying…if you want a 450 with a higher trim level, Ford can’t make it right now. Been there, tried that for most of a year. Add in the whole dealer allocation and priority level management fiasco, and it adds to the aggravation. Seeing a ‘23 model year F450 Platinum might be about as rare as a Yeti sighting.

    Luxe has the direct-to-customer model. Nice coaches…
    Its worse than that. They stop order taking on 2023 F-450s of any trim level. You can order a F-250/350 up to a Lariat but not a King Ranch, Platinum or Limited.

    F-450s are like gold right now. I waited almost a year from order to delivery to get my current 2022 F-450 King Ranch Ultimate, delivered this January 12th. I had another on order and after a year from order date that order was "unfilled" and was reordered as a 2023 F-450 King Ranch.. Fortunately the dealer is still honoring the original offer from 15 months ago at 4% below Final Invoice. Plus Ford gave me a $5,000 Cash Offer Certificate to apply towards the 2023 order since they couldn't fill the 2022 order.

    Here is the text from the email letting me know they did not select the 2nd 450 that was ordered to be built
    -------------------
    Hello!

    Unfortunately, your order was not selected for 22MY production…

    23MY Super Duty is open now for orders... Attached is the order guide from Ford. Please let us know how you would like to proceed!

    We will honor the % under the final invoice you were offered at the time of ordering the 22MY. At this time, Ford has not announced if they will offer price protection for unfulfilled 22MY orders
    Last edited by Jerryr; 03-04-2023 at 10:17 AM.
    Jerry & Linda
    Emma & Abby our Mini Golden Doodles & JR our Amazon Parrot
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    http://visitedstatesmap.com/image/FLGANCSCsm.jpg

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