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  1. #21
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Interesting turn of events today... Went to the show in Oaks, PA today with friends that are shopping. Absolutely mobbed! The majority of units were sold. Indicated MSRPs were inflated, and I'm not speculating because I saw the exact units on the lot two weeks prior, attempting to make show pricing look really special... The finance rates... OMG!!! The kicker, every manufacturer I have now toured in the past month on lot or at this show has horrendous build quality! The Alliance was terrible. The Forest Rivers were terrible. The Jaycos were terrible. The GD Solitudes presented maybe best, but definitely things that took no effort to find. Thor products might have been the worst. I think most of the dealers didn't even consider making an effort to be show ready! The other thing, really incredible the ever decreasing respect people have for units at a show... Rough is an understatement. Yanking door hinges out of frames, slamming doors and drawers so hard to coach wobbled. Flopping on the furniture like it was Motel6. We saw at least ten units with broken dinette chairs, recliners with the pulls torn out, and some gem spilled something all over a theater seat and moved on. Letting kids press every button on every thing. All I can say, I'd never buy a show unit! Yikes! The one dealer I know basically felt it because buyers haven't returned to lot shopping and don't realize there's inventory. He remarked the show traffic has been more than the entirety of 2023 so far. No doubt Spring is coming and tax returns are a consideration
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

    Mountains of Pennsylvania

  2. #22
    Seasoned Camper
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    I just can’t believe how much dealers want for these units. My 1st GD reflection TT in 2018 I paid 50k. Same unit today is 89k new (CnD$$$). Priced out a 410 with paint the other day. Dealer told me 210k. Mind boggling.

  3. #23
    Seasoned Camper
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    Interesting turn of events today... Went to the show in Oaks, PA today with friends that are shopping. Absolutely mobbed! The majority of units were sold. Indicated MSRPs were inflated, and I'm not speculating because I saw the exact units on the lot two weeks prior, attempting to make show pricing look really special... The finance rates... OMG!!! The kicker, every manufacturer I have now toured in the past month on lot or at this show has horrendous build quality! The Alliance was terrible. The Forest Rivers were terrible. The Jaycos were terrible. The GD Solitudes presented maybe best, but definitely things that took no effort to find. Thor products might have been the worst. I think most of the dealers didn't even consider making an effort to be show ready! The other thing, really incredible the ever decreasing respect people have for units at a show... Rough is an understatement. Yanking door hinges out of frames, slamming doors and drawers so hard to coach wobbled. Flopping on the furniture like it was Motel6. We saw at least ten units with broken dinette chairs, recliners with the pulls torn out, and some gem spilled something all over a theater seat and moved on. Letting kids press every button on every thing. All I can say, I'd never buy a show unit! Yikes! The one dealer I know basically felt it because buyers haven't returned to lot shopping and don't realize there's inventory. He remarked the show traffic has been more than the entirety of 2023 so far. No doubt Spring is coming and tax returns are a consideration
    Funny enough I looked at an alliance the other day and the quality was horrendous. Wall panelling falling off, paint peeling on exterior and they still were asking 110k for it.

  4. #24
    Left The Driveway
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerryr View Post
    Its worse than that. They stop order taking on 2023 F-450s of any trim level. You can order a F-250/350 up to a Lariat but not a King Ranch, Platinum or Limited.

    F-450s are like gold right now. I waited almost a year from order to delivery to get my current 2022 F-450 King Ranch Ultimate, delivered this January 12th. I had another on order and after a year from order date that order was "unfilled" and was reordered as a 2023 F-450 King Ranch.. Fortunately the dealer is still honoring the original offer from 15 months ago at 4% below Final Invoice. Plus Ford gave me a $5,000 Cash Offer Certificate to apply towards the 2023 order since they couldn't fill the 2022 order.

    Here is the text from the email letting me know they did not select the 2nd 450 that was ordered to be built
    -------------------
    Hello!

    Unfortunately, your order was not selected for 22MY production…

    23MY Super Duty is open now for orders... Attached is the order guide from Ford. Please let us know how you would like to proceed!

    We will honor the % under the final invoice you were offered at the time of ordering the 22MY. At this time, Ford has not announced if they will offer price protection for unfulfilled 22MY orders
    I just popped onto Manheim auction... I can get you near zero miles 2022 F450 Platinum's, there's several to choose from. The only caveat is they are $10-$15k over MSRP

  5. #25
    Site Sponsor NB Canada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shnngns View Post
    I just popped onto Manheim auction... I can get you near zero miles 2022 F450 Platinum's, there's several to choose from. The only caveat is they are $10-$15k over MSRP
    If people would simply stop paying those prices they wouldn’t get those prices
    I don’t feel sorry a bit for the HD crowd
    2021 Imagine 2400 BH
    2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 Crew 1840lb payload

  6. #26
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    Wall Street Journal report that Thor is expecting hard times this year. It was stated that even though traffic was way up at RV shows, that has not translated into sales.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/thor-in...cools-43f339a2
    2022 Imagine XLS 22MLE
    Sold: 2015 27RL
    2016 Ram 3500 Crewcab Cummins SRW

  7. #27
    Site Sponsor NB Canada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnow101 View Post
    Wall Street Journal report that Thor is expecting hard times this year. It was stated that even though traffic was way up at RV shows, that has not translated into sales.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/thor-in...cools-43f339a2
    It isn’t just Thor. GD is in the same boat
    2021 Imagine 2400 BH
    2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 Crew 1840lb payload

  8. #28
    Big Traveler
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    Quote Originally Posted by minnow101 View Post
    Wall Street Journal report that Thor is expecting hard times this year. It was stated that even though traffic was way up at RV shows, that has not translated into sales.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/thor-in...cools-43f339a2
    It's a game of how far prices can go up before demand drops significantly. I think we may have found that point. This was never a cheap hobby, but, today someone looking to get into a new (or newer) mid range model is looking at some really steep numbers. And, lord, if you don't have a tow vehicle already? Phew, good luck. I'm sure that's taking a bite out of the market, especially 5ers where people generally are looking for diesel pickups. The prices on a new or used DRW pickup are absurd, it wouldn't shock me to see that used, you're looking at 2X what it used to cost to get into a late model DRW pickup truck compared to 2019. And then add, on top of all that, higher interest rates on loans which most use to buy their truck and RV. It wouldn't shock me, if someone did the analysis, that if you're financing and buying new today, it's over 2X as expensive a hobby (for the same RV/truck) as it was 3 years ago.

    Net/net, lots and lots of people being priced out of the market.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by shnngns View Post
    I just popped onto Manheim auction... I can get you near zero miles 2022 F450 Platinum's, there's several to choose from. The only caveat is they are $10-$15k over MSRP
    The devil is in the details.
    2023 Reflection 297RSTS
    2020 F-250 Power Stroke

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    <snip>This was never a cheap hobby, but, today someone looking to get into a new (or newer) mid range model is looking at some really steep numbers. And, lord, if you don't have a tow vehicle already? Phew, good luck. I'm sure that's taking a bite out of the market, >snip>And then add, on top of all that, higher interest rates on loans which most use to buy their truck and RV. <snip>
    Net/net, lots and lots of people being priced out of the market.
    You outline perfectly what we faced as first time RV buyers. Not only did we have to buy the RV but also the tow vehicle. This is a serious commitment.

    We are approaching retirement so we don't face the obstacles many face in that our kids are grown, we really don't have any bills, that sort of stuff. Point being, we didn't have to finance the purchase. But, to your point, with our mid range (2021 2670MK) and a used diesel pickup, we came within a few dollars of our $100k budget. If we were younger, had kids at home and living from paycheck to paycheck, as many do, we simply couldn't afford this. Add to that the cost of financing it? Yep, many people are priced out of this experience.

    But with all that said, when the wife and I go to the grocery store lately we come away wondering how young families do even that.
    2023 Reflection 297RSTS
    2020 F-250 Power Stroke

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