Who has had Brass bushing issues on their CRE3000 suspension

**msutoad** · 03-06-2023, 06:09 PM

I am having discussions with MorRyde on the Brass bushings prematurely wearing out even when greased properly. I have confirmed weights (from the scales) and all the suspensions measurements. So I am wondering how many on here have replaced their bushings and how many miles were on yours? My challenge is swapping bushings at the rate I am wearing them out is not sustainable.

Please reply to this thread and let me know please as I would like to make a comment to MorRyde that I am not alone, I just happen to be someone that has climbed the chain to address it

. Thanks in advance.

Jason

**geotex1** · 03-06-2023, 07:07 PM

Have you gone to a trailer shop and had them check the alignment on all hangers on each side to confirm they are aligned relative to one another on each side and that both sides are parallel to each other. I'll wager a frosty six pack that will reveal your problem, and fairly common on Lippert frame to be misaligned. FWIW - MORryde actually sources one of the best bronze bushings out there that's dead on spec. Anyway, a commercial trailer ship can do a laser align check rapidly. If nothing close, you can do it yourself with string lines, 6 foot straightedge, and careful measurements once off the ground, level and tires off.

**msutoad** · 03-06-2023, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by geotex1

Have you gone to a trailer shop and had them check the alignment on all hangers on each side to confirm they are aligned relative to one another on each side and that both sides are parallel to each other. I'll wager a frosty six pack that will reveal your problem, and fairly common on Lippert frame to be misaligned. FWIW - MORryde actually sources one of the best bronze bushings out there that's dead on spec. Anyway, a commercial trailer ship can do a laser align check rapidly. If nothing close, you can do it yourself with string lines, 6 foot straightedge, and careful measurements once off the ground, level and tires off.

thanks for the note.

I would have also thought the same about my alignment . However I had to measure all the welds for the hangers front to back side to side and all the diagonals and they said it was all within tolerance. I have zero abnormal tire wear either. The failed bushings are never in the same place they all fail at some point without alot of miles. So I’m not convinced it’s out of alignment but I suppose it’s possible.

The bushing they use is a brass one which is very soft. Dexter makes one that is sold at etrailer as the bushings for the CRE3000 which is not entirely true. The Dexter bushings are bronze and much stronger however they do not fit in the CRE3000 device, they are 1/1,000 too big. I machined the Dexter units to fit and they hold up better than the brass ones for sure .

I have all the pictures of this posted in another location but can link them here if helpful. I’m no expert but I’ve spent a lot of hours on this in the last 6 months

.

I’ll see about getting an alignment just to confirm.

best

jason

**Redapple63** · 03-06-2023, 08:21 PM

Just for clarification as geotex1 mentioned these bushings are bronze.

I am warming up to replace my springs bushings and equalizers too.

Bill

**geotex1** · 03-06-2023, 09:22 PM

@msutoad, I can assure you that the bushings are all bronze. There is constant error in reference to brass. We pesky engineers prefer precise language, and all of the bushings in discussion are low in zinc, and by definition, cannot be brass. That said, the difference in the bronze bushings is how they are cast and the exact alloy involved. You can find a huge array out there from junk to premium all blindly grouped as bronze leaf spring bushings.

No, back to your wandering wear... On a triple axle, it's not so unusual to have wear seemingly jump around because triples right themselves in a certain sense. Just picture their behavior in tight reversing. That lateral loading and moments take the slack up in the suspension and bind it differently. For instance, you may have been turning more rights during one interval between services than the next. I speak from experience with a triple axle enclosed car hauler. Trailer suspensions are pitiful things, with hangers that don't have consistent gap and shackles with too much play on top of the frequent misalignment of the hangers and perches misplaced instead of having the same centers as the hangers, which is an obvious must.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be argumentative, especially if it's been a 6-month headache, but run through the most common causes for bushing wear. As part of alignment checks, you'll want to pull the equalizers out and make sure all three steel sleeves were, in fact, welded perpendicular to the body. If you're not already running heavy duty shackles (not sure what was stock in 2021 models) that's a worthwhile upgrade to reduce slack.

As a data point, my CRE3000 are ready for new bushings just shy of 16K rolled with them. My suspension eats the spring eye bushings at the frame hangers at a rate of 4 times faster, which is why my hangers are boxed and gusseted and braced side-to-side and I have a set of springs I made with larger, precision honed eyes and pressed in polymer bushings.

**Overtaxed** · 03-07-2023, 04:25 AM

When I did my springs, the bushings in the springs were disintegrated at ~10K miles. I only had to change one bushing, however, in one of the equalizers, the rest of them looked pretty good. Getting the bushing out of the equalizers is a challenge, quite a bit harder than the springs (tighter fit). But it seems they last longer too; even the bushing on the equalizer that I replaced wasn't shot, I could just feel it wasn't perfectly round anymore (there was a flat spot worn in). Compared to the bushings in the springs, all the equalizer bushings looked "factory fresh".

**msutoad** · 03-07-2023, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by Redapple63

Just for clarification as geotex1 mentioned these bushings are bronze.

I am warming up to replace my springs bushings and equalizers too.

Bill

update… so after reading your post, I went to the garage to confirm the above info.
I am not right fighting, just sharing the info from my experience with this issue and also the parts info.

I agree the bushings should be Bronze. Below you will see a picture of 2 parts. Both I received from GDRV for the issue. The package says “Bronze” for both but the part #s are different and the metals are for sure different and even the color is different. The more copper colored bushing does not at all stick to a magnet where as the more steal or bronze colored bushing does stick to a magnet.
All I can tell you is my suspension came with the brass colored bushings and the ones MorRyde sent me in replacement were also that same color and I bought those. The bronze colored ones I got on warranty after buying them from MorRyde so I have a pile that look like this. The bronze ones also match the Dexter suspension bushings I bought, fyi.

again not suggesting I’m right, sharing data only.

Click image for larger version.

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**msutoad** · 03-07-2023, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by geotex1

@msutoad, I can assure you that the bushings are all bronze. There is constant error in reference to brass. We pesky engineers prefer precise language, and all of the bushings in discussion are low in zinc, and by definition, cannot be brass. That said, the difference in the bronze bushings is how they are cast and the exact alloy involved. You can find a huge array out there from junk to premium all blindly grouped as bronze leaf spring bushings.

No, back to your wandering wear... On a triple axle, it's not so unusual to have wear seemingly jump around because triples right themselves in a certain sense. Just picture their behavior in tight reversing. That lateral loading and moments take the slack up in the suspension and bind it differently. For instance, you may have been turning more rights during one interval between services than the next. I speak from experience with a triple axle enclosed car hauler. Trailer suspensions are pitiful things, with hangers that don't have consistent gap and shackles with too much play on top of the frequent misalignment of the hangers and perches misplaced instead of having the same centers as the hangers, which is an obvious must.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be argumentative, especially if it's been a 6-month headache, but run through the most common causes for bushing wear. As part of alignment checks, you'll want to pull the equalizers out and make sure all three steel sleeves were, in fact, welded perpendicular to the body. If you're not already running heavy duty shackles (not sure what was stock in 2021 models) that's a worthwhile upgrade to reduce slack.

As a data point, my CRE3000 are ready for new bushings just shy of 16K rolled with them. My suspension eats the spring eye bushings at the frame hangers at a rate of 4 times faster, which is why my hangers are boxed and gusseted and braced side-to-side and I have a set of springs I made with larger, precision honed eyes and pressed in polymer bushings.

I am not taking it as you are being argumentative. I appreciate the response and your time. I too am an engineer and thus so specific about things when I have the data. I’ve shared everything I have so far and by far am I no expert nor claim to be. I have checked the frame mounts at 90 degrees to the frame and they might be off by .25 degrees if at all, so my gut says within tolerance but maybe not.

I fully expected the bushings to wear and would need replacing especially on the spring side. My CRE3000 bushings were ok on one equalizer and all but gone on the others, they have been replaced.

I never found the worn out bushings to cause a performance problem on my rig. I just felt like if they were not taking grease it was bad and I would check and poof replace what was needed. It’s time consuming to pull the tires and do the work, but it’s not difficult work in my opinion.

I will in the near future get all the copper color bushings out and these new ones with the 130070 part # installed in the hopes they are stronger.

**BoatNerd** · 03-07-2023, 06:08 AM

Following this as I'm coming due for replacement also. A little searching at McMaster and they do offer a "high load" bronze material...

High-Load Oil-Embedded Sleeve Bearings

Increased iron content makes these bearings stronger and more resistant to shock loads than standard oil-embedded bearings; however they operate at lower speeds. Startup friction causes them to release a thin layer of oil on the bearing’s surface. Color is silver because of the iron. These bearings are also magnetic due to the high iron content.

Note: Dynamic load capacity is the maximum load a bearing can withstand at a given shaft speed. If your application’s load and speed requirements are below the values listed, the bearing will work.

**geotex1** · 03-07-2023, 06:44 AM

@msutoad, greetings fellow engineer! OK, first thing first, on your parts bags those are GD P/Ns, which change surprisingly frequently. The numbers you want to pay attention too are those in the lower left corner below the bar code. The righthand bag is a Lippert-supplied bushing and the right is a Dexter-supplied bushing. Standard P/Ns for each. These are both sintered bronze, and Dexter follows an internal specification that they won't share but I believe is close to SAE 841 material. At last I knew for spec, Lippert buys open market, Asia-produced bearings. There are several grades of bronze slightly magnetic, and in sintered you can have different additions. I move to SAE 660 bushings that I had sourced directly from manufacturer.

Is it consistently with that equalizer but a different bushing in it each time? If so, I'd focus on checking if there is to much side-to-side or rotational play.