"Mini" 100ah battery. Too good to be true?

[SGT ROC]

I just clicked the link and it worked. They have a pretty good write up on the specs. One thing it does not mention is low temp cut off. It does have high temp, which some, Will Prowse included, think is useless. According to their website, it has a 1st generation LiTime BMS - built in house. Other than those things - they have a very good reputation and did change their name from Amphere Time to probably rebrand and become self-sufficient as far as builds go. I don't know, but based on reviews of their previous products, I would try it out. I probably will later this summer anyway.

[Redapple63]

Ray from Love your RV YouTube channel just had his 200ah Amperetime fail, will have to wait to see what the cause was.

Personally I stay away from batteries like those, no external monitoring of the BMS so you have no clue what the battery is doing. Renogy for example has both RS485 and Bluetooth options so you can get status directly from the BMS.

Thanks for that. Watched the video. It seems they are standing by their product. Ray stated in the comments that they agreed to send him a new battery or BMS. He wasn’t clear on exactly what they sent him, but he said he will be doing more tests.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ShC7HoNE_Oc

Bill

[SolarPoweredRV]

The link isn't working. AFAIK, there has not been any break thrus that would enable that weight reduction. look closely for areas that can save weight,,,smaller cells that will reduce capacity, and allow for a smaller, thinner case. no BMS.tiny weak terminals.
i am skeptical of it

There does not need to be any major breakthroughs to lower the weight of the standard Group 24 Lithium batteries. If you watch a few of the breakdown videos, you will see that the cases are oversized and a lot of extra materials are used to fix the cells within the battery enclosure. One of the recent tear downs I saw had the bottom 1/4 of the case filled with rubber that fixed the batteries in place, that rubber weighed 5 lbs.

The reduction in size is mostly due to better packaging and the quoted weight/density is probably due to Li Time using better quality cells inside. No breakthrough chemistry required.

Update:

I just talked with my friend, Mr. Google, and he checked with his wife, Wikipedia, she says that LiFePo4 batteries have an energy density of 220 Wh/L while the Li Time website shows these batteries to be 164.5wh/L. No breakthrough required, just marketing hype.

By-the-way, their claim is most likely true, for two reasons: 1, they are the only company touting energy density and 2, because they eliminated excess space inside the battery they are probably the industry leaders in energy density.

[pilotpip]

Cold weather is a consideration. I'm planning on putting them in my passthrough for security. Since I have a Murphy bed the pass through area has airflow from the living space. In 20 degree weather last fall it was 45-50.

I've been considering Renogy Batteries and Victron for controllers chargers etc.

I would imagine the failure mentioned earlier is a result of BMS. My understanding is that is the week spot on the lower priced batteries. They're all using essentially the same cells as there are only a couple sources for those. The electronics and construction are where the big differences are.

[pilotpip]

There does not need to be any major breakthroughs to lower the weight of the standard Group 24 Lithium batteries. If you watch a few of the breakdown videos, you will see that the cases are oversized and a lot of extra materials are used to fix the cells within the battery enclosure. One of the recent tear downs I saw had the bottom 1/4 of the case filled with rubber that fixed the batteries in place, that rubber weighed 5 lbs.

The reduction in size is mostly due to better packaging and the quoted weight/density is probably due to Li Time using better quality cells inside. No breakthrough chemistry required.

Update:

I just talked with my friend, Mr. Google, and he checked with his wife, Wikipedia, she says that LiFePo4 batteries have an energy density of 220 Wh/L while the Li Time website shows these batteries to be 164.5wh/L. No breakthrough required, just marketing hype.

By-the-way, their claim is most likely true, for two reasons: 1, they are the only company touting energy density and 2, because they eliminated excess space inside the battery they are probably the industry leaders in energy density.

Thanks for chiming in, David. You're one of the main reasons I still read and post here despite owning another brand. Based on your comments the small difference in size and weight may be worth it. Rubber isolation and a little better construction is a good thing. Vibration kills electronics.

[A.Texas.Yankee]

It's possible. But I'm a little skeptical of product quality. Common 3.2v 100AH cells weigh roughly 4.5 lbs. I'm sure you could change the cell case a bit. But you're not shaving much weight off the cell case (safely), 'cause of science. So a 19lb 12v lithium battery with BMS and enclosure, seems a bit sketchy.

My 16 cell (1216AH x 12v = 14.5kwh) DIY build weighed roughly 82 lbs with BMS and NO case. So I guess it's doable. Battle born use cylindrical cells (and a lot of them vs. 4 prismatic most others do) so they do weigh a bit more at about 30 lbs.

[SolarPoweredRV]

It's possible. But I'm a little skeptical of product quality. Common 3.2v 100AH cells weigh roughly 4.5 lbs. I'm sure you could change the cell case a bit. But you're not shaving much weight off the cell case (safely), 'cause of science. So a 19lb 12v lithium battery with BMS and enclosure, seems a bit sketchy.

My 16 cell (1216AH x 12v = 14.5kwh) DIY build weighed roughly 82 lbs with BMS and NO case. So I guess it's doable. Battle born use cylindrical cells (and a lot of them vs. 4 prismatic most others do) so they do weigh a bit more at about 30 lbs.

Aren't your cells 280 or 300 ah?

It is possible they switched from prismatic cells to pouch cells. With the case full of pouch cells you could probably squeeze in 100ah of storage.

I would love to see a tear down video. Hey, Politpip, buy an extra battery and send it to Will Prowse for a video.

[A.Texas.Yankee]

Aren't your cells 280 or 300 ah?

It is possible they switched from prismatic cells to pouch cells. With the case full of pouch cells you could probably squeeze in 100ah of storage.

I would love to see a tear down video. Hey, Politpip, buy an extra battery and send it to Will Prowse for a video.

Yep, you're right. Could be pouch, but I'm not sure I'd want pouch in a mobile application.

Mine were 304ah EVE cells. They pulled slightly over the rated capacity at first, so I was pretty happy with that. Never really capacity tested after that, but didn't ever feel the need to, either.

[pilotpip]

Aren't your cells 280 or 300 ah?

It is possible they switched from prismatic cells to pouch cells. With the case full of pouch cells you could probably squeeze in 100ah of storage.

I would love to see a tear down video. Hey, Politpip, buy an extra battery and send it to Will Prowse for a video.

Not a fan of being a gunnea pig! I'm probably going to go with Renogy or one of the other imports in that price/quality range.

[SolarPoweredRV]

Aren't your cells 280 or 300 ah?

It is possible they switched from prismatic cells to pouch cells. With the case full of pouch cells you could probably squeeze in 100ah of storage.

I would love to see a tear down video. Hey, Politpip, buy an extra battery and send it to Will Prowse for a video.

Yep, you're right. Could be pouch, but I'm not sure I'd want pouch in a mobile application.

Mine were 304ah EVE cells. They pulled slightly over the rated capacity at first, so I was pretty happy with that. Never really capacity tested after that, but didn't ever feel the need to, either.

Not a fan of being a gunnea pig! I'm probably going to go with Renogy or one of the other imports in that price/quality range.

I am not saying that they are using pouch cells, I just said that might be a possibility.

As far as pouch cells being used in a mobile application, they are used all the time, GM's Ultium batteries are pouch cells, BYD's Blade batteries are pouch, most Hybrid batteries are pouch cells.

As a matter of fact, Prismatic cells are pouch cells, they are just encased pouch cells.

I don't think I would look at the Mini battery as "New Technology", just a refinement of the existing technology (not "Guinea Pig" territory).

If I needed the form factor of these new mini Lithium batteries, I would not hesitate to buy these batteries, I feel that Li Time has proven themselves to be a reliable manufacturer of value priced LiFePo4 batteries.