GVWR / GAWR and Curb Weight Questions

[Mark_270BN]

- Does GVWR include fuel weight?
I am finding conflicting info as to whether or not "curb weight" includes full fluids like fuel or not. I understand it does not include cargo, passengers and/or any add-ons you might add after factory.
- Has the posted door Cargo Carrying Capacity number already assumed you have a full fuel tank?

- How can one's truck have GAWRs of 6,000lbs front and 6,040lbs rear and yet only have a GVWR of 10,000lbs? Currently installed factory tires are "load range E" and rated at 3,640lbs each.

Are these definitions standardized or do some manufactures make adjustments to the definitions? I have a RAM 2500.

Thanks!

[llr2800]

The GVWR is the max for everything, nothing exclude or counted separate
The Payload / CCC number allows for full fuel. All people, cargo and things added since it left the factory count against this.
It is common for the front + rear to exceed the GVWR. With the 10K number I suspect it is de-rated for class, license, insurant etc. I think my F150 is less then 1K difference but GVWR is still lower

[Mark_270BN]

The GVWR is the max for everything, nothing exclude or counted separate
The Payload / CCC number allows for full fuel. All people, cargo and things added since it left the factory count against this.
It is common for the front + rear to exceed the GVWR. With the 10K number I suspect it is de-rated for class, license, insurant etc. I think my F150 is less then 1K difference but GVWR is still lower

Thanks. Fuel is accounted for in the CCC number.

As far as I can tell, the GVWR in this case is a legal technicality then - not an actual structural limit.

[llr2800]

As far as I can tell, the GVWR in this case is a legal technicality then - not an actual structural limit.

Probably, although I doubt if you will find anyone that can provide a "real number". Me personally, for non-commercial use I would stay under the axle limits and not worry about the total. With my prior TT was over GVWR and almost met axle ratings.

[Stealth13777]

Thanks. Fuel is accounted for in the CCC number.

As far as I can tell, the GVWR in this case is a legal technicality then - not an actual structural limit.

No way for you to know this unless you designed the vehicle. Sometimes they change a bearing in the transmission, cooling capacity for the engine or trans, oil cooler, fan size, frame thickness (verified thing on F150s), etc. etc. Since there is a whole lot more making up the vehicle than just axles, you really don’t know unless you know every single part.

If I’m a manufacturer, I’m not making 25 different axles for the various combinations of options. I’m doing maybe 2 (which is common), then rating the vehicle as a whole. It’s a shame legal requirements make it so we don’t know what is an engineering versus legal limit. If it isn’t rated right on a legal classification number (7k, 10k, 14k), it’s likely the GVWR is an actual limit. If it’s right on one of those numbers, just know the company is in the business of making $$ so every pound it can handle over its rating is costing them $$.

[xrated]

GVW is what the truck weighs at any moment in time
GVWR is the very most that the truck should ever weigh, including everything....fuel, passengers, driver, cargo, a box of kleenex, ....anything and everything
Payload or CCC is GVWR minus GVW. Let's say that you load your truck (GVWR 10,000 lbs) and you load it way up and go to the scale. The scale ticket says that your truck weighs 9990 lbs....so you have 10 lbs left before you hit the GVWR. Then you notice that the fuel gauge is sitting on "E", so you go fill up your 30 gallon tank (approx 7 lbs per gallon) and you have now added 210 lbs or so. Now you are overloaded on the payload and the GVWR of the truck by approx. 200 lbs

Here's a quick fact, bit of info.....anytime you are over payload, you are automatically over the GVWR of the truck.

Here is the order of progression in overloading. Once you reach your payload amount, any more weight will be over the payload and over the GVWR. If you keep adding more to the truck, you will eventually get to the point you reach the GAWR or one or both axles. If you then add more weight, you will get to the point that the tires have reached their rated load capacity, although that can be reached with less weight if they are not inflated to the pressure that is listed on the sidewall of the tire. Lot's of folks think that the psi number on the side of the tire is just the max psi inflation number....and it is, but it is also the pressure that you need to have the tire inflated to, in order for that tire to provide the listed load capacity rating....which is also listed on the side of the tire in the same located at the pressure number. Hope this helps a bit

[Mark_270BN]

No way for you to know this unless you designed the vehicle. Sometimes they change a bearing in the transmission, cooling capacity for the engine or trans, oil cooler, fan size, frame thickness (verified thing on F150s), etc. etc. Since there is a whole lot more making up the vehicle than just axles, you really don’t know unless you know every single part.

If I’m a manufacturer, I’m not making 25 different axles for the various combinations of options. I’m doing maybe 2 (which is common), then rating the vehicle as a whole. It’s a shame legal requirements make it so we don’t know what is an engineering versus legal limit. If it isn’t rated right on a legal classification number (7k, 10k, 14k), it’s likely the GVWR is an actual limit. If it’s right on one of those numbers, just know the company is in the business of making $$ so every pound it can handle over its rating is costing them $$.

In the case of RAM, as best I can tell anyway, they only difference in a 2500 and 3500 (5th gen) is the rear suspension. 2500 has a coil and 3500 has the leaf, and they therefore have different GAWRs. But, you supposedly can't just add the GAWRs together to get a total weight allowance from a structural / safety limit standpoint. This makes no logical sense to me from a structural standpoint when the only difference is the rear suspension type.

[ajg617]

In the case of RAM, as best I can tell anyway, they only difference in a 2500 and 3500 (5th gen) is the rear suspension. 2500 has a coil and 3500 has the leaf, and they therefore have different GAWRs. But, you supposedly can't just add the GAWRs together to get a total weight allowance from a structural / safety limit standpoint. This makes no logical sense to me from a structural standpoint when the only difference is the rear suspension type.

3500 has a 12" rear, 2500 has 11.5". Cummins HO and Aisin trans not available on 2500. Beefier transfer case on the HO Cummins. From 2019 on, below:

https://media.stellantisnorthamerica...?id=20518&mid=

[Mark_270BN]

3500 has a 12" rear, 2500 has 11.5". Cummins HO and Aisin trans not available on 2500. Beefier transfer case on the HO Cummins. From 2019 on, below:

https://media.stellantisnorthamerica...?id=20518&mid=

Ok, what I mean is difference that translate into weight bearing capacity...or maybe I misunderstand...but how does a larger rear end ("pumpkin") HO Cummins/Aisin and transfer case make a difference in how much weight the bed will handle? I see those things you listed as improving total towing weight, not cargo weighing down on the suspension and wheels.

Are the brakes, and frame the same? What able the axles themselves? I know there are two rear diff options on the 3500 too.

[ajg617]

Ok, what I mean is difference that translate into weight bearing capacity...or maybe I misunderstand...but how does a larger rear end ("pumpkin") HO Cummins/Aisin and transfer case make a difference in how much weight the bed will handle? I see those things you listed as improving total towing weight, not cargo weighing down on the suspension and wheels.

Are the brakes, and frame the same? What able the axles themselves? I know there are two rear diff options on the 3500 too.

The axle tube diameter is larger with the bigger pumpkin. Bottom line, the GVWR and GAWRs are identical between SO and HO, but you lose 170lbs payload with the HO. No clue why if everything is the same. I've never seen any Stellantis confirmation on specific differences. Personally, I suspect the 2500 and 3500 frames are identical except for the coil vs. leaf but I've never seen any corroboration from Stellantis. Also note that the GVWRs for 2500s in Canada are 9900 rather than their 10000 US counterparts but there are no differences in the 3500 noted (at least for 2020).