User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1
    Site Sponsor ExNihilo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    157
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Should I be adding a 12volt sub-panel?

    So this question is just a reach for my electrical knowledge range but I know enough to ask it.

    I added plenty of solar (12v) and battery capacity. My wiring is well over the top with an added 6 gauge DC wire in conjunction with the 8 gauge stock wire to the DC side of the main power panel. 6/3 southwire to the 120 side of the panel no issues there- happy as a clam.

    All inverter and battery cables are 4/0 (yes every last one it was a beast to build a rack to route the wire).

    We converted to a 12v Refrigerator (say 6 amp draw for a hot day average added to an empty slot on the DC panel in unit- 15 amp fuse per manufacturer).
    We added heating pads to the tanks (say 25 amps if below freezing this has a separate inline fuse to main bus bar)
    Say 20-25 amps for battery heaters if below freezing also a separate blue sea interrupted breaker to main bus bar)

    I want to add a 12v cigarette style plug for a CPAP (I have the appropriate 12v adapter for the unit)

    I focused so much on the 120 side I basically never considered the 12v side other than being sure I had plenty to the main panel. Now I find myself adding all the 12v I can to save inverting amps from the battery. I feel like it’s a bit Frankenstein with all the inline fuses and I tend to like clean and orderly. Right is more important than frugal to me.

    Here is were I get lost in the sauce. At what point do I need a separate DC sub panel? Is a 50 Amp electric panel also 50 AMP DC? At what point do I risk overload? In essence I guess I am asking what the DC rated load is on main distribution or how to figure it out.

    Fortunately- I know there are some folks out there way smarter than me
    Thanks in advance!
    Ex-Nihilo
    2022 2970RL (Fabricated 1/4 Inch Bumper w/ RV Generator Boxes)
    1200AH Lithium, 1000w Solar w/ Victron Multi-Plus II
    5.5K Axles- EOH Disc Brakes- Hensley Arrow
    Road Master Slipper Springs
    2021 RAM Longhorn 2500 Cummins 6.7
    Chattanooga TN

  2. #2
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Jun 2021
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    1,559
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It really depends on the draw of whatever you plan to run on the 12V circuit. I'm not familiar with what a CPAP would draw. But it's safe to say that for typical 12V appliances, you can tap into 12V wiring to add some USB ports and cigarette lighter style ports without any trouble. If you do this, just add an in-line fuse to it. Even though it will also be fused at the panel for the existing wire that you are tapping into, it doesn't hurt to add a small (2 or 3 amp) fuse to a USB style port, for example. Otherwise you could certainly run individual circuits from the 12V battery buss from your battery bank, or you could add another separate fuse block near your battery bank and run new circuits. It's just a matter of convenience vs amp draw. Amp draw may dictate that you need to run a separate circuit...
    Chad
    2023 23LDE 965W Solar, Victron Multiplus, Solar Controllers, Cerbo GX, 4x280AH DIY Lithium Batteries, SeeLevel Tank Monitoring, Shock Absorbers (Replaced 2022 22MLE)
    2022 F350 6.7L Superduty, Carbonized Gray, Ultimate Lariat Pkg, 4WD, Crew Cab, 160" Wheelbase, 3.55EL Rear End, 3566# Payload
    Adaptive Steering, Ultimate Camera Pkg, 20" Wheels, 397 Amp Dual Alternator, ARE Topper (Replaced 2004 F150)

  3. #3
    Site Team traveldawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    3,853
    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As you can see from the description of this panel: WFCO WF-8930/50NPB-50 50 Amp or 30 Amp AC Distribution Center ; an AC / DC panel can and, I think, most likely will be of different capacity for the AC and DC circuits. So you would have to size what you are using against what you are pulling from.

    Almost any dC distribution panel would give you extra fused circuits for whatever you add. I prefer a powered distribution panel over separate in line fuses to associated loads.
    Larry KE4DMG
    2022 F-350 KRU SRW LB - Airlift 5000+, ForScan, 37 RDS Aux Tank,
    2019 310GK-R - Sailuns; MorRyde IS; Disc Brakes; 20K Reese Goosebox
    Search kalakamods for my mods


  4. #4
    Site Team Soundsailor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    3,212
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ExNihilo View Post
    So this question is just a reach for my electrical knowledge range but I know enough to ask it.

    I added plenty of solar (12v) and battery capacity. My wiring is well over the top with an added 6 gauge DC wire in conjunction with the 8 gauge stock wire to the DC side of the main power panel. 6/3 southwire to the 120 side of the panel no issues there- happy as a clam.

    All inverter and battery cables are 4/0 (yes every last one it was a beast to build a rack to route the wire).

    We converted to a 12v Refrigerator (say 6 amp draw for a hot day average added to an empty slot on the DC panel in unit- 15 amp fuse per manufacturer).
    We added heating pads to the tanks (say 25 amps if below freezing this has a separate inline fuse to main bus bar)
    Say 20-25 amps for battery heaters if below freezing also a separate blue sea interrupted breaker to main bus bar)

    I want to add a 12v cigarette style plug for a CPAP (I have the appropriate 12v adapter for the unit)

    I focused so much on the 120 side I basically never considered the 12v side other than being sure I had plenty to the main panel. Now I find myself adding all the 12v I can to save inverting amps from the battery. I feel like it’s a bit Frankenstein with all the inline fuses and I tend to like clean and orderly. Right is more important than frugal to me.

    Here is were I get lost in the sauce. At what point do I need a separate DC sub panel? Is a 50 Amp electric panel also 50 AMP DC? At what point do I risk overload? In essence I guess I am asking what the DC rated load is on main distribution or how to figure it out.

    Fortunately- I know there are some folks out there way smarter than me
    Thanks in advance!
    Love the sound of what you're doing. Pictures?

    You should be fine putting the CPAP receptacle inline in your existing 12-volt house wiring unless you're running heated tubing and the humidifier. I typically am just using CPAP pressure in the coach, so less than 1 Amp. But with all the bells and whistles, a CPAP can draw more than 5 Amps and would need a dedicated circuit. I agree with @Riverbug, put in a small inline fuse.

    As far as a sub-panel is concerned, what would you be running from it that would require that? Most of your DC heavy hitters are already running through the main panel. You might want to add a small 12-volt fuse panel for those smaller items, I'm just guessing that if you have a spare 15-Amp fuse on the main panel, you could run something smaller off of it and be all set.
    Stephen and Judy
    2022 Reflection 150 Series 260RD (Stella)
    2017 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD (Blue)
    Traded - 2018 Forest River Rockwood Minilite 2104S

  5. #5
    Site Sponsor ExNihilo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    157
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Soundsailor View Post
    Love the sound of what you're doing. Pictures?

    You should be fine putting the CPAP receptacle inline in your existing 12-volt house wiring unless you're running heated tubing and the humidifier. I typically am just using CPAP pressure in the coach, so less than 1 Amp. But with all the bells and whistles, a CPAP can draw more than 5 Amps and would need a dedicated circuit. I agree with @Riverbug, put in a small inline fuse.

    As far as a sub-panel is concerned, what would you be running from it that would require that? Most of your DC heavy hitters are already running through the main panel. You might want to add a small 12-volt fuse panel for those smaller items, I'm just guessing that if you have a spare 15-Amp fuse on the main panel, you could run something smaller off of it and be all set.
    Here is the basics of what I have going on there are 10 panels on the roof now and sealed appropriately. The Battery rack has an insulated door that is removable with gate hardware. That last battery on the bottom has the tank heaters I applied to each battery since they do not have low temp BMS cut off. We had a long stretch of 28 degrees here in TN the batteries stayed at 55 and better. I monitored it relentlessly since I was home but had a great chance to test my theory.

    I added my generator setup as well I added a ATS with the generator taking priority over shore power. Honestly, with the solar I rarely use it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_1215.jpg   IMG_1259.jpg   64584093147__C2138990-9FD4-4B2C-B36F-1C2A239513AB.jpg  
    Last edited by ExNihilo; 03-22-2023 at 03:47 PM.
    Ex-Nihilo
    2022 2970RL (Fabricated 1/4 Inch Bumper w/ RV Generator Boxes)
    1200AH Lithium, 1000w Solar w/ Victron Multi-Plus II
    5.5K Axles- EOH Disc Brakes- Hensley Arrow
    Road Master Slipper Springs
    2021 RAM Longhorn 2500 Cummins 6.7
    Chattanooga TN

  6. #6
    Site Sponsor ExNihilo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    157
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You're on spot- I was being lazy I need to go find my manual. I just had a bright idea reading the forum. Too may ideas on here for a restless tinker.
    Ex-Nihilo
    2022 2970RL (Fabricated 1/4 Inch Bumper w/ RV Generator Boxes)
    1200AH Lithium, 1000w Solar w/ Victron Multi-Plus II
    5.5K Axles- EOH Disc Brakes- Hensley Arrow
    Road Master Slipper Springs
    2021 RAM Longhorn 2500 Cummins 6.7
    Chattanooga TN

  7. #7
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SW Colorado
    Posts
    2,673
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ExNihilo View Post
    So this question is just a reach for my electrical knowledge range but I know enough to ask it.

    I added plenty of solar (12v) and battery capacity. My wiring is well over the top with an added 6 gauge DC wire in conjunction with the 8 gauge stock wire to the DC side of the main power panel. 6/3 southwire to the 120 side of the panel no issues there- happy as a clam.

    All inverter and battery cables are 4/0 (yes every last one it was a beast to build a rack to route the wire).

    We converted to a 12v Refrigerator (say 6 amp draw for a hot day average added to an empty slot on the DC panel in unit- 15 amp fuse per manufacturer).
    We added heating pads to the tanks (say 25 amps if below freezing this has a separate inline fuse to main bus bar)
    Say 20-25 amps for battery heaters if below freezing also a separate blue sea interrupted breaker to main bus bar)

    I want to add a 12v cigarette style plug for a CPAP (I have the appropriate 12v adapter for the unit)

    I focused so much on the 120 side I basically never considered the 12v side other than being sure I had plenty to the main panel. Now I find myself adding all the 12v I can to save inverting amps from the battery. I feel like it’s a bit Frankenstein with all the inline fuses and I tend to like clean and orderly. Right is more important than frugal to me.

    Here is were I get lost in the sauce. At what point do I need a separate DC sub panel? Is a 50 Amp electric panel also 50 AMP DC? At what point do I risk overload? In essence I guess I am asking what the DC rated load is on main distribution or how to figure it out.

    Fortunately- I know there are some folks out there way smarter than me
    Thanks in advance!
    For my CPAP install and back up lights I added a second 12V fuse block (Blue Sea) I have a write up at the GD forum and here. https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...highlight=CPAP
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel with 6K axle upgrade. B&W 25K OEM Companion, Steadyfast system, 2022 F350 SRW 6.7 King Ranch 8' bed, Trailer reverse lights, rear spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, and Solar

  8. #8
    Seasoned Camper
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Location
    Santa Maria, Ca
    Posts
    178
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ExNihilo View Post
    You're on spot- I was being lazy I need to go find my manual. I just had a bright idea reading the forum. Too may ideas on here for a restless tinker.
    You should be able to see the max DC amps on the front of the panel. My Reflection 303RLS has a 160 amp max output (see pic below). I believe most of the panels are rated at that. Since most of your heavy DC loads are temporary (slides, levelers, etc.) I think you would be hard pressed to overload the panel.

    Since it sounds like you already upsized the wiring from the panel to the battery bank, you should be good adding additional circuits/fuses to your existing panel - if you have open slots. Stock, they use 6awg cable which would be too small for a 160amp output.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	52D10C02-1059-42BE-B3E7-BF119AF8467E.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	913.9 KB 
ID:	45501
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	436B2119-5D8A-4DCD-9194-8DE4774C0C49.jpeg 
Views:	8 
Size:	1.22 MB 
ID:	45502
    2022 Ram 2500 4x4, 6.7 Cummins, RamBox, Air Lift 5000 Ultimate Plus, B&W Companion
    2022 Reflection 303RLS, Progressive hardwired EMS, Airborne Sidewinder
    YouTube Chanel

  9. #9
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    SW Colorado
    Posts
    2,673
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jomani View Post
    You should be able to see the max DC amps on the front of the panel. My Reflection 303RLS has a 160 amp max output (see pic below). I believe most of the panels are rated at that. Since most of your heavy DC loads are temporary (slides, levelers, etc.) I think you would be hard pressed to overload the panel.

    Since it sounds like you already upsized the wiring from the panel to the battery bank, you should be good adding additional circuits/fuses to your existing panel - if you have open slots. Stock, they use 6awg cable which would be too small for a 160amp output.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	52D10C02-1059-42BE-B3E7-BF119AF8467E.jpg 
Views:	7 
Size:	913.9 KB 
ID:	45501
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	436B2119-5D8A-4DCD-9194-8DE4774C0C49.jpeg 
Views:	8 
Size:	1.22 MB 
ID:	45502
    The panel may be rated at that but the primary re-settable circuit breaker may not. You will find that breaker under the primary battery connection at the power in buss bar. Most are either 30A or 50A depending on your trailer service and unit.
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel with 6K axle upgrade. B&W 25K OEM Companion, Steadyfast system, 2022 F350 SRW 6.7 King Ranch 8' bed, Trailer reverse lights, rear spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, and Solar

  10. #10
    Site Team Soundsailor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    3,212
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by powerscol View Post
    For my CPAP install and back up lights I added a second 12V fuse block (Blue Sea) I have a write up at the GD forum and here. https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...highlight=CPAP
    That's a great write-up @powerscol, I'm going to be making a second look at my rig to see if I can get access to the forward compartment as you did. I'm assuming most 5ers in the 150 series would have a similar layout to your coach, any tips for figuring out where to drill?
    Stephen and Judy
    2022 Reflection 150 Series 260RD (Stella)
    2017 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD (Blue)
    Traded - 2018 Forest River Rockwood Minilite 2104S

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

DISCLAIMER:This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Grand Design RV, LLC or any of its affiliates. This is an independent site.