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  1. #21
    Long Hauler
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    There are some who swear there has never been a Goodyear Endurance tire failure that wasn't caused by road debris/damage. I, personally, have no opinion on the matter. I stick to Sailun and am a happy camper.
    Howard and Peggy
    2019 Momentum 351M, and 2018 RAM Cummins dually 6-speed.
    His: 1999 Honda Interceptor
    Hers: 2013 Spyder ST-S

  2. #22
    Big Traveler
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    Quote Originally Posted by NB Canada View Post
    I can almost guarantee that IF Goodyear ever gets as popular as Westlakes they will be the new “china bomb”
    The ratio of Westlakes to Goodyears isn’t even remotely close
    As we see the cry for “better” tires and Goodyear is put on every trailer they will start to have more issues

    There already are MANY endurance failures on the interwebs. Treads falling off and exploded failures
    I.e...... G159"s and Marathons. We had a set of Marathons on a ultralight TT that blew out multiple tires on one trip but ran fine on cheap china replacements afterwards.

    Took alot of real recent testimonials from RVers to put them back on my current 5er. Otherwise would've stuck with Westlakes. So yeah, would agree "bombs" aren't all made in China!
    Jim and Annette
    2019 Reflection 150 295RL
    US Army Veteran
    Missouri (AKA Misery)

  3. #23
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NB Canada View Post
    I can almost guarantee that IF Goodyear ever gets as popular as Westlakes they will be the new “china bomb”
    The ratio of Westlakes to Goodyears isn’t even remotely close
    As we see the cry for “better” tires and Goodyear is put on every trailer they will start to have more issues
    There already are MANY endurance failures on the interwebs. Treads falling off and exploded failures
    After I read the govt. testing standards for ST tires vs. LT tires, the reason for ST tires reliability problems became clear to me. I made the jump to LTs in 2006, From then until we bought the Momentum, we ran Michelin XPS RIBs on two TTs over 100,000 miles with ZERO tire problems. With some effort and$$$ most TTs can be fitted with 16" rims. That opens up a slew of LT tires to choose from. When we were using STs from 1992 to 2006 we went thru tires fast. none of them lasted until their second birthday.I lost count of them. I did go up in load range and size thinking that would solve it. No dice. One of the advertisments for STs actually stated they were an "affordable solution for your trailer tire needs"

    I also read where the average TT is only used 3 times in the first 3 years for short 100-200 mile trips by the original owner.
    This expains a lot about RVs, and STs tire quality.

    Of course if you are on this forum, you are unlikely to be such a casual user.... So upgrades will be needed
    Last edited by huntindog; 04-23-2023 at 05:52 PM.
    2021 398M Full Body Paint 8k axles. LRH tires. Disc brakes.
    Two bathrooms, no waiting 155 fresh, 104 black, 104 grey 1860 watts solar.
    800AH BattleBorn Batteries No campgrounds 100% boondocking
    2020 Silverado High Country 3500 dually crewcab Duramax Allison

  4. #24
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    The following was posted by an RVer who put a lot of time into it in 2006.That is when I read it. At that time everything he gave for supporting links worked. I read them all. Over time, websites have changed, and the links no longer work. The info though is factual and will open your eyes.
    Enjoy:
    Posted: 09/22/09 09:22pm Link | Print | Notify Moderator
    This post is an open letter to the RV.net community whom have been following the ongoing tire discussions.

    I have been following these discussions, but until lately I have been staying on the sidelines until the topic took a turn to a more factual basis. I have personally experienced multiple failures with my 5th wheel and ST tires, both D and E load range and would like to understand why this appears to happen more often with ST (special trailer) vs. LT (light truck) tires. (Based on this forum it must be considered anecdotal and not conclusive evidence.)

    To resolve this matter I have investigated the current Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) testing standards that ST and LT tires must meet to be certified to be sold in the United States.

    First I have some folks that I would like to thank for providing me the desire to delve into this issue:
    “Chris” for moving the topic in a more factual direction.
    “Tireman9” for helping me find the federal standards.
    “FastEagle” for his willingness to challenge group thought and to encourage me to understand the perceived performance discrepancies between these types of tires.
    Thanks guys!

    For those of you who just wish to get the big picture facts, I have started with a summary section. This hits all the high points and you my quit after reading this. (No need to read all the details if you don’t want to!)

    If you wish to understand my research in greater depth (and verify my findings and conclusions), after the summary I have provided the following sections: references, notes, and testing of (1) bead unseating resistance, (2) strength, (3) endurance, and (4) high speed performance.

    SUMMARY OF FINDINGS & CONCLUSIONS

    I found the testing requirements for both the ST and LT tires at the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) webpage.

    The testing for each tire is comprised of (1) bead unseating resistance, (2) strength, (3) endurance, and (4) high speed performance.

    The testing for (1) bead unseating resistance and (2) strength were identical for tires representative of moderate to heavy 5th wheels and thus no advantage is given to either tire type.

    The testing for (3) endurance was found to be significantly different between the ST and LT tires.

    Both the ST and LT are put through the same initial pressure, time and load profile. The total profile lasts 34 hours of continuous run time starting at 85% of rated load and ending at 100% of rated load. To further stress the tires, a load range E tire (nominal 80 psi rating) is tested at a reduced pressure of 60 psi to induce additional load on the tire during testing. (This is reasonable that testing should be conservative.)

    But now the endurance testing diverges significantly.

    The ST tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 50 mph. After that, the ST test is over.

    The LT tire is tested at this pressure, time and load profile at 75 mph. This is a 50% increase over the ST and will induce significant additional load and heating on the tire during testing. After that, the LT test is not complete. Next a “Low Inflation Pressure Performance” test is performed for the LT tire only. The tire pressure is decreased to 46 psi and the tire is immediately run for an additional 2 hours at 75 mph and 100% of rated load.

    Thus, the LT tire endurance test is drastically more intense than the ST endurance test.

    The testing for (4) high speed performance.

    The difference in high speed performance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a 90 minute speed/time profile.

    The ST tire is tested 88% of rated load while the LT tire is tested at 85% of rated load. Thus, the loading is 3% higher based on rated load and this slight advantage goes to the ST tire.

    However, the LT tire is tested at significantly higher velocities when compared to a ST tire (99 vs. 85 mph maximum speed). This is a 16% advantage to the LT tire.

    Thus, again the overall test for the LT is more rigorous than the ST test.

    Conclusion:

    It is reasonable to conclude that these test requirements force the tire manufacturer to construct an LT tire more substantially than an ST tire. This is also a reasonable explanation for the same size LT tire is rated at a slightly lower maximum load than a ST tire.

    And now, for those of you who need to know all the details, read on!

    REFERENCES

    The references for my evaluation may be found at the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) webpage:
    ST tire standard may be found at FMCSA Part 571, subsection 109.
    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...0163348008f295
    LT tire standard may be found at FMCSA Part 571, subsection 139.
    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...0163348008f2a9
    Part 571, subsection 139 references Part 571 subsection 119 which can be found at:
    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...0163348008f29d

    QUICK NOTES

    Each standard for the ST and LT tires has definitions, significant constraints on labeling, etc. that I will not address. There are also tire conditioning (temperature), tire break in, etc. that are the same or similar for ST and LT that I will not address. The details are in the references.

    The (3) endurance, and (4) high speed performance tests must not result in tire failure. Tire failure includes visual evidence of tread, sidewall, ply, cord, inner liner, or bead separation, chunking, broken cords, cracking, or open splices, not just a blowout.

    TESTING - BEAD UNSEATING RESISTANCE

    ST Tire: (reference paragraph S5.2.2)

    The tire is mounted horizontally and a vertical load is applied to the tire’s outer sidewall at a rate of 50 mm (2 inches) per minute.

    Increase the load until the bead unseats or a specified value is reached.

    Repeat the test at least four places equally spaced around the tire circumference.

    LT Tire:

    Paragraph “S6.6 Tubeless tire bead unseating resistance” references the ST tire procedure noted above.

    Conclusion:

    The testing for bead unseating resistance is identical for a ST and LT tire.

    TESTING - STRENGTH

    ST Tire: (reference paragraph S5.3.2.1)

    Force a 19 mm (3?4 inch) diameter cylindrical steel plunger with a hemispherical end perpendicularly into the tread rib as near to the centerline as possible, avoiding penetration into the tread groove, at the rate of 50 mm (2 inches) per minute.

    Compute the breaking energy for each test point by means of a provided formula.

    LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.5.2)

    Each tire shall comply with the requirements of S7.3 of 571.119, which is tires for vehicles weighing 10,000 lb or more. Per S7.3 of 571.119 for our example tire, the testing is the same as the ST tire procedure noted above.

    Conclusion:

    The testing for strength is identical for a ST and LT tire.

    TESTING - ENDURANCE

    The following is for a ST or LT tire of less than nominal cross section less than or equal to 295 mm (11.5 inches) which is typical of a 5th wheel application.

    ST tire: (reference paragraph S5.4.2)

    There are specifications for the contact of the tire mounted on a test axle and steel test wheel after the test that I will not address because they are similar for the ST and LT.

    Inflate a load range E to 60 psi. (410 kPa)

    Conduct the test at 80 kilometers per hour (km/h)(50 miles per hour) in accordance with the following schedule without pressure adjustment or other interruptions:

    The loads for the following periods are the specified percentage of the maximum load rating marked on the tire sidewall:
    Time and Percent of rated load
    4 hours, 85%
    6 hours, 90%
    24 hours, 100%

    LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.3.1.2)

    “Conduct the test, without interruptions, at the test speed of not less than 120 km/h…” (75 mph)

    Inflate a load range E to 60 psi. (410 kPa)

    This test uses the same profile as the ST tire.

    Immediately following the above sequence perform a Low Inflation Pressure Performance test (reference paragraph S6.4):
    This test uses the same tire/wheel as the previous sequence at a reduced pressure.

    For a load range E tire the pressure is reduced to 46 psi. (320 kPa)

    The same tire/wheel is run an additional 2 hours at the reduced pressure at a speed of 75 mph and 100% of rated load.

    Conclusion:

    The difference in endurance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a equivalent loading/time profile. However, the LT tire is tested at this profile at a higher speed (75 vs. 50 mph) and must still endure an additional 2 hour low pressure test without failure. Thus the overall test for the LT is far more rigorous than the ST test.

    TESTING - HIGH SPEED PERFORMANCE

    ST tire: (reference paragraph S5.5.4)

    Load the tire to 88 percent of the tire’s maximum load rating as marked on the tire sidewall. Inflate to 72 psi (500 kPa). Run the test sequentially without interruption at:
    75 mph (121 km/h) for 30 minutes
    80 mph (129 km/h) for 30 minutes
    85 mph (137 km/h) for 30 minutes

    LT Tire: (reference paragraph S6.2.1.2.7)

    Load the tire to 85 percent of the tire’s maximum load rating as marked on the tire sidewall. Inflate to 72 psi (500 kPa). Run the test sequentially without interruption at:
    87 mph (140 km/h) for 30 minutes
    93 mph (150 km/h) for 30 minutes
    99 mph (160 km/h) for 30 minutes

    Conclusion:

    The difference in high speed performance testing between a ST and LT tire is significant. Both tires are tested through a speed/time profile. The ST tire is tested 88% of rated load while the LT tire is tested at 85% of rated load. Thus, the loading is 3% higher based on rated load and this slight advantage goes to the ST tire. However, the LT tire is tested at significantly higher velocities (nearly 100 mph!) when compared to a ST tire. This is a 16% advantage to the LT tire. Thus, again the overall test for the LT is more rigorous than the ST test.

    * This post was edited 09/23/09 04:30pm by SeniorGNC *
    Last edited by huntindog; 04-24-2023 at 06:54 AM.
    2021 398M Full Body Paint 8k axles. LRH tires. Disc brakes.
    Two bathrooms, no waiting 155 fresh, 104 black, 104 grey 1860 watts solar.
    800AH BattleBorn Batteries No campgrounds 100% boondocking
    2020 Silverado High Country 3500 dually crewcab Duramax Allison

  5. #25
    Site Sponsor SGT ROC's Avatar
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    Pretty interesting read, once you get into it. Also makes some pretty good points.
    Bob (retired) & Vicki
    Scuba Diver
    US ARMY Vet (Go Cav!)
    2019 Reflection 31MB
    2019 Chevy 2500HD LT Crew Cab Gasser

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