Rear Leveling Jacks pulling 119 Amps - 80 Amp CB does not reset

[Skifishnsurf]

Your first statement is true for the hydraulic extension lines but not true for the hydraulic retraction lines. All four retraction lines are daisy chained. From the retract valve block, the single retract line runs to mid roadside, to rear roadside, to rear curbside, and ends at mid curbside - at least that is how LCI designed it. Whether it was implemented that way by GD, unknown. What I do know is when pressing hitch height, both my mids retract synchronously and when they are 3" or so off the ground, both rears retract synchronously. That makes sense to me since the mids are not load-bearing - just stabilizing so it would seem prudent to get them out of the way first. When none of the rears retract before landing legs extend (my original complaint), all bets are off on which jacks will raise completely when retract all is pressed - multiple times. The retraction sequence is always different and that includes either or both of the landing legs not coming up.

Looking at the diagram, the mids do not work together, nor do the rears. The orange lines coming from extend valve block connect the rights as a pair, lefts as a pair, and landing gears as a pair

To clarify about the black "retraction" lines in the diagram, it appears like rear and mid jacks are daisy chained because they are all connected together via jack pass-thru ports to the "retract valve block". But the block is a misnomer. It really is a hollow manifold and has no valves. All the black hoses and the overpressure switch connected to the block are connected in common. Think of all the black lines together as being one pressure line and are all connected to return side of the pump motor. There are no "retract" valves; activating a valve and reversing the pump motor retracts the jacks.

It's the orange control lines and valves that work the cylinder pairs. When a valve is opened and pump motor is energized, only the associated cylinder pair will extend or retract as determined by motor direction. When valves are closed, the jacks within the cylinder pair can change lengths in opposite directions in see-saw fashion because fluid can still flow between them as unit is tilted by other jacks. Thus, each cylinder of the pair will share the load and be supporting an equal amount of trailer weight, no matter how the tilt angle changes. For example, when the right and left side valves are closed, extending the landing gear will cause both rear cylinders to slightly collapse causing fluid to extend both mid cylinders lifting an equal amount, to allow for the raising of the front. If they didn't change, it would either blow the seals of the rear cylinders or cause the frame to be overstressed because of being supported only by the rear cylinders and not the mid cylinders.

In your case, during the "retract all", the controller is activating both the side valves at the same time and reversing the motor. All side jacks start to raise up lowering the rig, but when all the weight becomes entirely supported by wheels is when the jack with least friction rises off the ground first. Then the next least friction rises, and so on. It is completely arbitrary to the observer of the order of raising, but it will probably repeat the order every time.

Hopefully this information helps you determine your over-current problem. Just remember, generally the harder a motor works, the more amperage will be needed. Also, in measuring DC current, your wire being measured must first be disconnected. If using an analog meter (meter has a needle pointer over an arched scale), the red meter lead be connected to the more positive of the wire or its disconnection point and black lead other point. If using a digital meter, lead colors not important.
Lastly, no matter what your measurements and calculations show during this process, when you do find the problem, you'll find Ohm's Law still reigns supreme.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Also, in measuring DC current, your wire being measured must first be disconnected.

I haven't disconnected wires for amp readings, ac or dc, in decades. I use a clip-on ammeter. Safer.
@ajg617 Glad to hear they at least believe you there is something wrong. A bad pump could fit the symptoms of high amps in only one direction (motor rotation). Hope the dealer is helpful on the replacement.

[xrated]

I haven't disconnected wires for amp readings, ac or dc, in decades. I use a clip-on ammeter. Safer.
@ajg617 Glad to hear they at least believe you there is something wrong. A bad pump could fit the symptoms of high amps in only one direction (motor rotation). Hope the dealer is helpful on the replacement.

Agree 100%. Clamp on ammeters have literally changed the way we do things in electrical current flow measurement. The older analog meters that did have the ability to measure current, was usually a 10A limit, which is basically useless in a situation like this......brings back memories of my old Simpson 260 meter...LOL!

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Agree 100%. Clamp on ammeters have literally changed the way we do things in electrical current flow measurement. The older analog meters that did have the ability to measure current, was usually a 10A limit, which is basically useless in a situation like this......brings back memories of my old Simpson 260 meter...LOL!

We had Simpsons in the shop as well.
I remember the first 'non-contact ammeter I used required both hands to hold it..lol Don't remember the brand but it was about 18" long and about 20 pounds.

[xrated]

We had Simpsons in the shop as well.
I remember the first 'non-contact ammeter I used required both hands to hold it..lol Don't remember the brand but it was about 18" long and about 20 pounds.

More than likely it was an "Amprobe" brand. When I worked in the Steel Mill, where I spent 30 years, we had a huge Amprobe (can remember the model), but it had interchangeable heads for it. IIRC, there were either three or four heads, and each one was a specific amp range. The largest head went up to 5000 amps DC if I remember correctly. I used that one several times over the years as all of our Overhead Cranes were 250VDC and we had some pretty big cranes there. Think of a main hoist that has a lifting capacity of 400 Tons, or 800,000 lbs. We had 6 of those cranes in my dept, and there were two large DC motors on the main hoist. When the main hoist was lifting a ladle of molten steel.....just under 400Ts worth, your armature current would be in the 2500/2600 amp range. I've been retired from that place since 2003.....so happy retirement anniversary to me! LOL!

[ajg617]

Posting this as an FYI if anyone is interested. This is a picture of my hydraulic block. Of note, I have a different controller and a different touchpad which LCI calls One Control Advantage. I'm not sure what the 'advantage' is. That system has been superseded and is no longer available. PN 160288 replaced by 160312 which I can't find any details on. Note that there are 5 extension feeds to the block and 4 retraction feeds - a plus one for each compared to the LCI diagram.



Adding the LCI Electrical schematic.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

@ajg617 Is the motor being replaced? How are things progressing?

[ajg617]

@ajg617 Is the motor being replaced? How are things progressing?

Dealership on June 2nd for evaluation. GD Site Tech made a phone evaluation that the motor needs to be replaced. I don't know what the dealership will find. I'm still surprised that the 80 breaker doesn't seem to care about the high amps though. I'll mention that to dealer when I drop it off.

[ajg617]

Quick update before dropping it off Wed. Had been level for two weeks while I did some work inside. Had a long discussion with LCI during that time - mostly about the Schwintek, but the tech I was speaking with also handles leveling and started to ask me questions about being level when I deploy the slides. I gave him some detail and the conversation went on. Suffice to say, he's not on the same page as GD's tech on the leveling issue. His take, first, when the motor goes, it usually just stops. Second, the 80 amp breaker should blow know matter what if the Amps exceed 80. Third, the solenoid could be the cause of the motor showing positive on both legs as well, but his inclination is that something in the 'brain' isn't functioning well. Nobody at LCI seems to understand the diagnostic output of the OneControl.

That said, he asked me if I had removed the batteries for the winter? No, but had shut them off and pulled them twice and he said that would do. BLUF, he said if I remove the batteries, I need to reset zero point. News to me but I did. Then went out and pressed hitch height - no rear jacks would retract - system operated completely different - just the same as my initial concern last season so we are now back to square one. Since none of the rear jacks retracted, doubt I was hitting high amps.

When I hook up to take it to the dealer I'm going to measure the retract-all amps once hitched and see what we get. Taking bets on whether the CB will pop again. Either way, that's getting replaced even if I have to foot the bill.

[ajg617]

Dealer can find nothing wrong with the leveling system but they are replacing the 80amp Circuit Breaker and I'm not sure why. I will confirm that after resetting zero point, even I no longer got the high amp draw that I did before. Very strange.