California Diesel Truck Ban

[chemist308]

Another fine example of Californians getting all the government that they continue to vote and pay for. Way to go Californians!

I’m reminded of the days of the gasoline powered semi. You know there’s a reason they stopped making those. Seems they got horrible mileage, had no power under load, did worse on the downhill runs…

[WhittleBurner]

Ummmm.... a few of you are creeping into politics, a forum nono. Please don't go any deeper into it than you have or we'll have to start deleting posts without further warning.

[03griz]

Electric simply does not have the range in the cold climates. Lucky to get 120 miles in the winter on highway at -30. Have seen that first hand and have family with a new tesla. Good for short trips around town to grocery store. And no we have no Tesla chargers between Thompson and Winnipeg. From Winnipeg you don't make it to Ashern in the winter. I met someone who tried. The kids answer was he had the extended range, it should make it......

Real way to be net zero for building batteries is to get horse and ox to start providing the horse power for the mining of the ore. That would ensure that they would be produced cleanly....

[SolarPoweredRV]

Thanks for your real world feedback. [emoji4]


My issue is on longer trips since it does take time to recharge. Granted that doesn’t happen every day, so it does help. I also think in the next few years, there will be a technology breakthrough that will change.

Thanks,
Bill

Most of the newer EVs take LESS than 30 minutes to recharge from 10% to 80%. And with over 300 miles of range you can easily drive 450 to 500 miles with only one recharge in a day. Realistically, if you start with a full charge from home and stop for lunch about 280 miles from home, and charge up while you eat, where is the "Extra Time" on your trip? You were going to stop for lunch anyway! And 30 minutes is realistic for a stop to fill up the gas car, get the whole family to the bathrooms (twice), and feed everybody, so where is the "Extra Time"?

On a more practical note; you usually don't drive your EV to a DC Fast Charger and charge up to 80%. Normally, you charge up to 65% - 70%, just enough to get you to the DC Fast Charging station about 150 miles away (plus a little bit extra as a "cushion"). Basically you play Hop-Scotch with the DC Fast Chargers only spending about 15 minutes at each charger every 2-3 hours. The nice thing about stopping every 2 - 3 hours is that you get to your destination more refreshed and much less tired from a long drive.

With regard to a New Technology Breakthrough that will make EVs charge up in 5 minutes and will have 700 to 1,000 miles range, I wouldn't hold my breath. 350 miles range is 5 to 6 hours of driving and taking a 30 minute break to charge at the end of a 5 hour drive is simply a SAFE thing to do!! Even professional truckers are required to take a 30 minute break in the middle of the day.

Technology improvements will happen, however, they will come as incremental improvements to existing technologies, as opposed to "One Big Breakthrough".

Right now everyone is saying EVs are TOO EXPENSIVE. Well, Tesla Model 3 and Model Y are both priced below the median price of new US automobiles, And they qualify for the EV Tax Credit which makes them even more of a bargain!

I just bought a Chevy Bolt because Chevy dropped the price by $6,000 and the Bolt qualifies for the full $7,500 Tax Credit. I don't know about you guys, but if someone gives me $13,500 to buy a new car, well, I'm going to take advantage of the opportunity.

[SolarPoweredRV]

bill,

we rarely take long trips with our cars. On long trips we usually are towing the rv.

But regardless, even when towing we like to stop after about 3 hours and stretch our legs, take dogs out or take a bathroom break. Same with the tesla ev. On those stops at 3 hours or so i try to find a super charger and plug in while i take bathroom break and short walk to stretch my legs. A 20 minute charge will “pump” about 150 miles of range back into the battery with a tesla super charger. Being i was going to stop anyway at 3 hours it doesn’t add much time to a trip.

I totally agree !!!

[huntindog]

Most of the newer EVs take LESS than 30 minutes to recharge from 10% to 80%. And with over 300 miles of range you can easily drive 450 to 500 miles with only one recharge in a day. Realistically, if you start with a full charge from home and stop for lunch about 280 miles from home, and charge up while you eat, where is the "Extra Time" on your trip? You were going to stop for lunch anyway! And 30 minutes is realistic for a stop to fill up the gas car, get the whole family to the bathrooms (twice), and feed everybody, so where is the "Extra Time"?

On a more practical note; you usually don't drive your EV to a DC Fast Charger and charge up to 80%. Normally, you charge up to 65% - 70%, just enough to get you to the DC Fast Charging station about 150 miles away (plus a little bit extra as a "cushion"). Basically you play Hop-Scotch with the DC Fast Chargers only spending about 15 minutes at each charger every 2-3 hours. The nice thing about stopping every 2 - 3 hours is that you get to your destination more refreshed and much less tired from a long drive.

With regard to a New Technology Breakthrough that will make EVs charge up in 5 minutes and will have 700 to 1,000 miles range, I wouldn't hold my breath. 350 miles range is 5 to 6 hours of driving and taking a 30 minute break to charge at the end of a 5 hour drive is simply a SAFE thing to do!! Even professional truckers are required to take a 30 minute break in the middle of the day.

Technology improvements will happen, however, they will come as incremental improvements to existing technologies, as opposed to "One Big Breakthrough".

Right now everyone is saying EVs are TOO EXPENSIVE. Well, Tesla Model 3 and Model Y are both priced below the median price of new US automobiles, And they qualify for the EV Tax Credit which makes them even more of a bargain!

I just bought a Chevy Bolt because Chevy dropped the price by $6,000 and the Bolt qualifies for the full $7,500 Tax Credit. I don't know about you guys, but if someone gives me $13,500 to buy a new car, well, I'm going to take advantage of the opportunity.

Stopping for lunch is a waste of time. We swap drivers and eat on the road.

[SolarPoweredRV]

I’ve been very interested in EVs but the problems I see are keeping me out of that market for now. We generally don’t like to stop a lot during long trips so that adds a lot of time. Electric grids in many places are overtaxed by existing uses.

Lastly, if you do any research whatsoever on cobalt mining for lithium batteries, it turns out it is horrible. While companies claim the supply chain is “clean,” that really isn’t the case. From one report:

“Siddharth Kara is a researcher in modern slavery and recently published a book on the cobalt rush. He said what he saw in Kolwezi shocked him more than anything he'd seen before, as ‘the severity and scale of human degradation and exploitation at the bottom of global supply chains, it just really shook me.’

At mine sites he visited, ‘people were caked in toxic filth, children caked in toxic grime and filth and scrounging in pits, trenches and tunnels to gather cobalt bearing ore and feed it up the supply chain,’ he said.”

As far as Cobalt is concerned, the Petroleum Industry uses more Cobalt in the refining process than all the worlds EVs.

Additionally, many EVs are built using Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries which do not contain any Cobalt. Approximately 50% of all Teslas are being built with LFP batteries. By simply buying a Standard Range Model 3 you eliminate Cobalt from the EV.

As far as not stopping on long trips goes, I would recommend you plan for several stops on your next long trip. You will be amazed at how good you feel after a long trip with rest stops as compared to a long trip just Grinding out the miles.

While the book you read is tragic, if you think about the issue logically, these big companies have such high demand for Cobalt, miners working by hand could not possibly produce enough ore for these big car, battery, and refinery companies. I honestly believe that all the worlds big companies are doing everything they can to prevent ore from those "Artisanal" mines entering their supply chain.

I hope these points will help you consider purchasing an EV in a more positive light.

[Redapple63]

Most of the newer EVs take LESS than 30 minutes to recharge from 10% to 80%. And with over 300 miles of range you can easily drive 450 to 500 miles with only one recharge in a day. Realistically, if you start with a full charge from home and stop for lunch about 280 miles from home, and charge up while you eat, where is the "Extra Time" on your trip? You were going to stop for lunch anyway! And 30 minutes is realistic for a stop to fill up the gas car, get the whole family to the bathrooms (twice), and feed everybody, so where is the "Extra Time"?

On a more practical note; you usually don't drive your EV to a DC Fast Charger and charge up to 80%. Normally, you charge up to 65% - 70%, just enough to get you to the DC Fast Charging station about 150 miles away (plus a little bit extra as a "cushion"). Basically you play Hop-Scotch with the DC Fast Chargers only spending about 15 minutes at each charger every 2-3 hours. The nice thing about stopping every 2 - 3 hours is that you get to your destination more refreshed and much less tired from a long drive.

With regard to a New Technology Breakthrough that will make EVs charge up in 5 minutes and will have 700 to 1,000 miles range, I wouldn't hold my breath. 350 miles range is 5 to 6 hours of driving and taking a 30 minute break to charge at the end of a 5 hour drive is simply a SAFE thing to do!! Even professional truckers are required to take a 30 minute break in the middle of the day.

Technology improvements will happen, however, they will come as incremental improvements to existing technologies, as opposed to "One Big Breakthrough".

Right now everyone is saying EVs are TOO EXPENSIVE. Well, Tesla Model 3 and Model Y are both priced below the median price of new US automobiles, And they qualify for the EV Tax Credit which makes them even more of a bargain!

I just bought a Chevy Bolt because Chevy dropped the price by $6,000 and the Bolt qualifies for the full $7,500 Tax Credit. I don't know about you guys, but if someone gives me $13,500 to buy a new car, well, I'm going to take advantage of the opportunity.

I do believe in ev’s. They are the future, however, today, for me, long trips are just not part of that. Now I live 3 miles from my work and most of my driving is local. Ev’s are totally suited for that today. We are in fact looking at the purchase of an electric in the next year for that sole purpose. For long trips it will be my beautiful and comfortable diesel Duramax. [emoji16]

Bill

[Overtaxed]

I do believe in ev’s. They are the future, however, today, for me, long trips are just not part of that. Now I live 3 miles from my work and most of my driving is local. Ev’s are totally suited for that today. We are in fact looking at the purchase of an electric in the next year for that sole purpose. For long trips it will be my beautiful and comfortable diesel Duramax. [emoji16]

Bill

Electric motors are a better way to power a vehicle. The problem isn't EV's it's the "B" in BEV (battery electric vehicle). The vehicle that would work, especially when we're talking about towing, is a moderate sized diesel generator coupled with a similarly modestly sized battery pack. That would be a dream tow vehicle, tons of power, unlimited range, around town trips on battery, towing the ~3L diesel engine kicks on and keeps the battery in the middle of the charge range.

That's the vehicle that most of us need to replace our HD pickup TVs. Even something like the Tesla semi, with an absurd 1000KW of battery on board still has the "charging" problem. 1000KW is a lot of power, you're not getting that at the RV park (or at home unless you have days to wait for a charge). And 1000KW is about what it takes to get the range that most of us need (or want) from a TV; ~500 miles between recharge.

We're probably 20+ years away from a BEV replacement for a 350/450 class pickup truck. We could build a hybrid diesel/electric tomorrow if we wanted to, it would save lots of fuel and be a wonderful tow vehicle; EV motors are incredibly powerful. I'd love to watch the battery fill up going downhill instead of hearing the exhaust brake wail away too!

[Dakota]

I’ve read comments here and other places saying it only takes 15-30 minutes to charge an EV. That sounds good, but it only takes 5 minutes to fill a tank with gas. If there are 3 cars in front of you for gas you may wait 15 minutes. Three cars ahead of me charging would be a 45+ wait. This will be a nightmare. How long would it take to charge the batteries in a semi truck?