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  1. #61
    Site Sponsor Jerryr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
    I’ve read comments here and other places saying it only takes 15-30 minutes to charge an EV. That sounds good, but it only takes 5 minutes to fill a tank with gas. If there are 3 cars in front of you for gas you may wait 15 minutes. Three cars ahead of me charging would be a 45+ wait. This will be a nightmare. How long would it take to charge the batteries in a semi truck?
    In the first 7 years and over 150,000 miles of EV ownership from 2015-2022 with Nissan Leafs, I only charged at public charging stations exactly 3 times. Every other time I’ve charged at home which takes 5 seconds to plug in after pulling into the garage. The EV is programmed to charge overnight and start to charge so it completes at 8 AM every morning. I have a “full tank” every morning.

    My gas car during that time was a Hybrid Lexus RX450h. When I gave it to our daughter last month it had 25,000 miles on it. Most of those 25,000 miles were driven just to either keep it lubed or because the EV was being used by either me or my wife. Now we have 2 Teslas so no need for a gas car.

    I estimate I had to go to a gas station 100 times in 7 years with our RX450h vs 3 times going to a public EV Charger.

    In December we went with a Tesla and in March with a second Tesla to replace the gas car. I’ve owned the Tesla below for 5 months and driven it 4,918 miles. I’ve use Super chargers 11% only because it’s free for 10,000 miles of charge. Charged at home 34% and at our cabin 55%. Estimates saved $536 in gas. Electric rates at home are 14 cents/kWh.

    We spent $205 in electric for the 4,928 miles driven or 4cents/mile.
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    Jerry & Linda
    Emma & Abby our Mini Golden Doodles & JR our Amazon Parrot
    2017 Reflection 337RLS, Build Date 01/2017, Titan Disk Brakes, Goodyear G614s 235/85/16 G Rated tires
    2022 F-450 King Ranch Ultimate, 4,868 lb Payload, Bedrug Bedliner, Andersen Ultimate II Aluminum 5th wheel hitch
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  2. #62
    Site Team WhittleBurner's Avatar
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    When do these electric cars start getting charged for road repairs. Why do the people with cars run on gas have to foot the whole bill.
    Marcy & Gary
    2014 Grand Design - Reflection 303RLS
    2022 GMC 3500 Denali Duramax Longbed SRW
    2015 GMC Denali 3500 - Retired
    2003 F350 - retired
    Michigan
    We're in trouble now, the dog are bloggin'!
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
    I’ve read comments here and other places saying it only takes 15-30 minutes to charge an EV. That sounds good, but it only takes 5 minutes to fill a tank with gas. If there are 3 cars in front of you for gas you may wait 15 minutes. Three cars ahead of me charging would be a 45+ wait. This will be a nightmare. How long would it take to charge the batteries in a semi truck?
    Depends what you're charging it with, but, standard Superchargers, it would take ~4-5 hours to refill the semi. They are going to release a more powerful supercharger for the semi that will be in the ~1hr range.

    The semi is what we need to use as a comparison point when thinking about towing large TT or 5ers. That's what it's going to take, 500-1000KWH of battery on board to get a reasonable range. A battery that size, you're going to have to do a lot of the fill up at public chargers, even a 50A RV circuit, you're looking at "days" to get to 1000KW for a "refuel".

    Rough numbers, it's 1-2KW/mile to tow something the size/weight of a typical Grand Design. If you want a 300 mile range with some buffer (which is a typical travel day for us), you're going to need to have 750KW or so on board to do that across various conditions (cold, hills, etc). That's a lot of power. A standard Tesla charger, it would be hours to refuel. On a 50A connection, it would be days.

    We're at least a decade, I'd guess 2-3 decades before we're going to have a "realistic" BEV replacement for our 350/450's. Battery density has to go up significantly, charging infrastructure needs a lot of build out (and when you're talking "semi power", the places you can get that kind of juice are limited, you're talking about the kind of power that a large commercial building draws when you plug in a semi, plug in a few of them, you're getting into the kind of power that's only available where there are transmission lines very close by).

    We're a long way off. I'd love it if we were there today, but we're not. I just wish we could have some realistic appraisal of the situation and someone would build the "interim step"; a EV drive vehicle with a ICE engine coupled to a generator as a "range extender".
    2020 Grand Design 351M (sold)
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  4. #64
    Site Sponsor Jerryr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhittleBurner View Post
    When do these electric cars start getting charged for road repairs. Why do the people with cars run on gas have to foot the whole bill.
    At least 17 States already charge extra annual registration fees for EVs. https://www.myev.com/research/intere...ectric-vehicle

    Most EV owners agree that they should contribute in some reasonable way to offset loss of taxes collected on gas.

    Here in Florida gas tax is 35 cents/gallon. A typical gas car uses 400 gallons per year which is $140/year in gas taxes.
    Jerry & Linda
    Emma & Abby our Mini Golden Doodles & JR our Amazon Parrot
    2017 Reflection 337RLS, Build Date 01/2017, Titan Disk Brakes, Goodyear G614s 235/85/16 G Rated tires
    2022 F-450 King Ranch Ultimate, 4,868 lb Payload, Bedrug Bedliner, Andersen Ultimate II Aluminum 5th wheel hitch
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  5. #65
    Site Sponsor SolarPoweredRV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
    I’ve read comments here and other places saying it only takes 15-30 minutes to charge an EV. That sounds good, but it only takes 5 minutes to fill a tank with gas. If there are 3 cars in front of you for gas you may wait 15 minutes. Three cars ahead of me charging would be a 45+ wait. This will be a nightmare. How long would it take to charge the batteries in a semi truck?
    Oddly enough, it takes the same 30 minutes to charge the Tesla Semi (other brands do take much longer). The key is Tesla's "Mega Charger" which can charge at rates up to one megawatt.

    While the Tesla Semi can charge in 30 minutes (10% to 70%), rarely will it need to be charged that fast. 80% of Semi trucking is within a 500 mile range, With the Tesla Semi already having a range of 500 miles, this means that the truck can make it's delivery and return to the depot for overnight charging. Eventually, the Tesla Semi will be placed into service as an "Over-the-Road" truck, there is plenty of "Distribution Center" work for the Electric Trucks to be done between now and then.

    I believe the first companies to begin using Electric Trucks "Over-the-Road", will be LTL (Less than Load) companies like Estes that have cross dock warehouses distributed along highways that can be reached by a driver in half of a workday where he can drop off the trailer he was hauling and pick up another trailer that is going back to his home depot. This will allow the Electric Truck to charge overnight at the depot.

    There is already a plan to install "Mega Chargers" along I-10 between California and Phoenix AZ (at 125mile intervals) that will accommodate Electric Semis distributing goods from the CA ports.

    Eventually, all Trucks will become Electric, the economics of operating an Electric Fleet versus a Diesel Fleet just favor the Electric Trucks too much for the industry to ignore.
    David and Peggy
    2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
    Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
    Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
    Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
    2018 Solitude 310 GK

  6. #66
    Site Sponsor Jerryr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarPoweredRV View Post
    ………………..

    everyone is saying EVs are TOO EXPENSIVE. Well, Tesla Model 3 and Model Y are both priced below the median price of new US automobiles, And they qualify for the EV Tax Credit which makes them even more of a bargain!

    I just bought a Chevy Bolt because Chevy dropped the price by $6,000 and the Bolt qualifies for the full $7,500 Tax Credit. I don't know about you guys, but if someone gives me $13,500 to buy a new car, well, I'm going to take advantage of the opportunity.
    Same here. Tesla dropped the price of the Long Range Model Y about $20,000 to about $50,000. Then the full $7,500 tax credit brings the car price to $42,000.

    My sister bought a 2023 Nissan Leaf in November when it still qualified for full $7,500 tax credit. She paid $28,000 for it and she got Fed Tax credit of $7,500 and State credit of $2,500 so it cost her $18,000. It’s a short range car but perfect for her for local trips.
    Jerry & Linda
    Emma & Abby our Mini Golden Doodles & JR our Amazon Parrot
    2017 Reflection 337RLS, Build Date 01/2017, Titan Disk Brakes, Goodyear G614s 235/85/16 G Rated tires
    2022 F-450 King Ranch Ultimate, 4,868 lb Payload, Bedrug Bedliner, Andersen Ultimate II Aluminum 5th wheel hitch
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  7. #67
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    I was shocked to watch a Ford Lightning tow into Canyon of the Eagles a 30' Airstream. Maybe 8,000#. I never got a chance to chat with the family of 3 as they only stayed a few days. I can only imagine that the trip to the campground was less than 80 miles. 72 miles to Austin or 117 to San Antonio.
    Joyful & Drake
    SE Texas
    2022 Grand Design 2600RB
    2022 F150 Platinum 1777# Payload
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  8. #68
    Big Traveler
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarPoweredRV View Post
    Oddly enough, it takes the same 30 minutes to charge the Tesla Semi (other brands do take much longer). The key is Tesla's "Mega Charger" which can charge at rates up to one megawatt.

    While the Tesla Semi can charge in 30 minutes (10% to 70%), rarely will it need to be charged that fast. 80% of Semi trucking is within a 500 mile range, With the Tesla Semi already having a range of 500 miles, this means that the truck can make it's delivery and return to the depot for overnight charging.
    Short/medium range trucking will be a very good application for EVs, likely within the next 5-10 years. As you've said, it makes a lot of sense, especially if you are going from A-B-C-D-A (back to the same location every night) where you can have an established charging area and 12 or so hours to recharge the truck. The issue is longer range, or, more to the interest of this group, stuff like RV hauling where things go pear shaped. I rarely drive >500 miles a day but I often start and end my day at an RV park, not a place that has a megacharger/gigacharger. And it's not as simple as "well, just have KOA drop them in"; that kind of power is not available just anywhere, in fact, it's not available in most of the country (the electric necessary to run dozens of gigachargers at once as you would in an RV park). Big commercial shipping parks, where semis usually operate, yeah, they can probably (many of them anyway) get that kind of power delivered but most of this country cannot.

    The other interesting discussion, let's say that 80% of the semis do become EVs in the medium term. What happens to the price of diesel fuel? I don't know what fraction of all diesel semis consume, but, I have to believe it's a significant portion (with tractors and construction/farming equipment being the other big consumer). If that demand falls to 0, it would stand to reason the price of diesel fuel would drop significantly as the demand falls. The laws of supply/demand seem to tell us that as more and more cars/trucks move to EV, the demand for liquid fuel will drop and the demand for electricity will increase. It's likely the price per gallon falls while the price per KW rises until some sort of equilibrium is reached. The oil rich states need to sell their product and they will price it to clear the market, which means we could (and likely will, IMHO) see a price war develop between the oil and electric companies.
    2020 Grand Design 351M (sold)
    2022 Luxe 44FB
    2019 F450 KR w/Hensley BD5F

  9. #69
    Site Sponsor SolarPoweredRV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post

    The other interesting discussion, let's say that 80% of the semis do become EVs in the medium term. What happens to the price of diesel fuel? I don't know what fraction of all diesel semis consume, but, I have to believe it's a significant portion (with tractors and construction/farming equipment being the other big consumer). If that demand falls to 0, it would stand to reason the price of diesel fuel would drop significantly as the demand falls. The laws of supply/demand seem to tell us that as more and more cars/trucks move to EV, the demand for liquid fuel will drop and the demand for electricity will increase. It's likely the price per gallon falls while the price per KW rises until some sort of equilibrium is reached. The oil rich states need to sell their product and they will price it to clear the market, which means we could (and likely will, IMHO) see a price war develop between the oil and electric companies.
    As demand for Diesel (and Gasoline) is reduced the prices will come down. I expect Diesel to settle around $2.50 and Gas to settle around $1.75 per gallon. I suspect these prices to remain stable for quite a few years, after that, I suspect that prices will rise as Liquid fuels become harder and harder to find.

    Fortunately, Electricity prices will not respond like you would expect in a typical "Supply and Demand" situation. There are three main reasons that Electricity prices will not respond as expected to increased Electric demand from EVs.

    First, most Electricity pricing in this country is regulated by a Government, or Quasi Government entity. These Regulators have been put into place to prevent "Excess Profiteering" by the utility companies.

    Second, the generation capacity of every utility is based on the longest and hottest day of the year (or coldest day of the year in other areas). Each Utility is required to be able to meet Demand on that Hottest (or Coldest) day and have as much as 10% reserve capacity. This means that on 95% of the days, the utility has excess generating capacity and they can sell that electricity to people who are charging their EVs. This excess capacity is mostly available at night when most people are sleeping (and when most EVs are charging). Consequently, Utility Companies Love EVs because they get paid for capacity that would otherwise be sitting idle and/or get curtailed.

    Third, most EVs charge at night and nighttime is when Electricity demand is lowest, consequently, some utilities are offering discounted pricing for electricity consumed between 11 pm. and 5 am and on weekends. While EV charging will consume more Electricity overall, because of Time-of-Day (TOD) usage, the Utilities are able to produce that electricity at "Marginal" cost which increases their total Revenue with out any Capital outlay because all the equipment has already been "paid" for from all the Non-EV Electricity sales.

    As a matter of fact: you can charge your EV, at night, (in Texas) for ONLY $30 per month. That's a whole months worth of driving for less than the cost of one fill-up! Can you imagine being an Uber Driver in Texas? This program was recently announced by Tesla Energy, Texas, for residential energy customers.

    One additional point I would like to make: If utility prices get too high, you can always install Solar panels and a battery to reduce the amount you pay to the utility companies. Utility companies know that Solar panels are a threat to their Business Model and they are currently doing every thing they can to discourage customers from installing Solar systems on their roofs. This will ultimately keep Electricity prices in check Can you imagine; if we could have installed mini gas refineries in our garages how low the price of gas would be right now?
    David and Peggy
    2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
    Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
    Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
    Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
    2018 Solitude 310 GK

  10. #70
    Site Sponsor NB Canada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarPoweredRV View Post
    As demand for Diesel (and Gasoline) is reduced the prices will come down. I expect Diesel to settle around $2.50 and Gas to settle around $1.75 per gallon. I suspect these prices to remain stable for quite a few years, after that, Can you imagine; if we could have installed mini gas refineries in our garages how low the price of gas would be right now?

    I am quite sure the opposite will happen. The prices will skyrocket
    Drilling companies are not going to continue to drill for crude if they can’t get the money for it
    2021 Imagine 2400 BH
    2018 GMC Sierra 4x4 Crew 1840lb payload

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