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  1. #1
    Setting Up Camp
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    Upgrading to Lithium Batteries

    I am upgrading to two lithium Battle Born batteries in my ‘22 Reflection 315 RLTS.

    I am also changing out the charger/converter for the lithium batteries.

    I would like to run 4 gauge wire instead of using the factory installed 6 gauge wire. I am thinking of switching out the two plastic battery boxes for one of the RV Lockboxes.

    https://www.rvlockbox.com/shop

    Has anyone tried running new battery cables in a Reflection 315? If so, how difficult was this project? Second, has anyone installed the RV Lockbox on the tongue of your trailer? Any problems with the RV Lockbox install?

    I am also installing a Victron Battery Monitor 712. I want to install the shunt in the RV Lockbox.

    FWIW, my trailer sits under an RV carport so the solar panels are virtually useless. The trailer is on shore power 24/7. I am not going to make any upgrades for the solar panels at this time.

    In case someone is wondering why I am doing this upgrade when I am on shore power all the time it’s because I am on a rural electrical coop. Power goes out all the time. This trailer has the Furrion 12V refrigerator. The deep cycle batteries run out of power pretty quick. I have already lost all of the food in the fridge three times.

    Thanks…

  2. #2
    Site Team Soundsailor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Txdabj1 View Post
    I am upgrading to two lithium Battle Born batteries in my ‘22 Reflection 315 RLTS.

    I am also changing out the charger/converter for the lithium batteries.

    I would like to run 4 gauge wire instead of using the factory installed 6 gauge wire. I am thinking of switching out the two plastic battery boxes for one of the RV Lockboxes.

    https://www.rvlockbox.com/shop

    Has anyone tried running new battery cables in a Reflection 315? If so, how difficult was this project? Second, has anyone installed the RV Lockbox on the tongue of your trailer? Any problems with the RV Lockbox install?

    I am also installing a Victron Battery Monitor 712. I want to install the shunt in the RV Lockbox.

    FWIW, my trailer sits under an RV carport so the solar panels are virtually useless. The trailer is on shore power 24/7. I am not going to make any upgrades for the solar panels at this time.

    In case someone is wondering why I am doing this upgrade when I am on shore power all the time it’s because I am on a rural electrical coop. Power goes out all the time. This trailer has the Furrion 12V refrigerator. The deep cycle batteries run out of power pretty quick. I have already lost all of the food in the fridge three times.

    Thanks…
    While I don't have your coach (so I can't directly answer your questions), it sounds like you have a sound plan. As far as changing the cable is concerned, the six gauge would probably be fine depending on which charger/converter you're planning on installing. If the new unit has the same output as the old one, you should be all set with no need to change the cables. You might even get by with your current converter/charger. While it may not charge the lithium batteries all the way, you would still have a lot more capacity than the batteries you have now. I can't help with the RVLockbox, but adding a shunt to monitor the battery is a good choice. The Victron is a popular model on this forum.
    Stephen and Judy
    2022 Reflection 150 Series 260RD (Stella)
    2017 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD (Blue)
    Traded - 2018 Forest River Rockwood Minilite 2104S

  3. #3
    Site Sponsor ajg617's Avatar
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    Just an FYI - discharge your Battleborns occasionally. They don't advertise it and there is nothing in any documentation that I received from them, but see email from them below which I'm hoping is inaccurate:

    "From: Nolan Cardoza <[email protected]>
    Sent: Monday, February 20, 2023 11:15 AM
    To: ajg617
    Subject: RE: Case Update: SUP76179 - Technical Support Question


    Hello John,

    If you leave your system plugged in 100% of the time and don’t take a day or two out of the month to discharge the batteries, you will cause damage to them. (as I stated in the last email)

    I would recommend checking out the manual for your battery as it explains how best to take care of the battery as well.

    Thanks!

    Nolan"
    Robin & John
    2020 Ram 3500 LB SRW 4WD Crew Laramie 6.7HO Aisin, 55gal Titan
    2022 Solitude 310GK-R - Dual pane, factory solar & Onan, 8K axles with discs, 18K GVWR, W/D, Heat Pump, Goosebox, Battleborn

    2023 stays

  4. #4
    Setting Up Camp
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    Soundsailor, thanks for your reply. The new converter/charger is a 60 amp Progressive Dynamics. The existing converter/charger is also 60 amp. I think the 6 gauge wire is enough but some people say it is better to go to a higher gauge.

  5. #5
    Setting Up Camp
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    Ajg617, That’s interesting! I haven’t heard that before.

  6. #6
    Site Sponsor ajg617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Txdabj1 View Post
    Ajg617, That’s interesting! I haven’t heard that before.
    Neither had I and it really surprised me since I'm hooked up and have solar. I installed a Circuit Breaker to cut off solar panel so I could let the batteries discharge a bit while unplugged from shore.

    I also have a Progressive Dynamics 9160ALV. That said, I highly recommend the pendant for the Charge Wizard ($14 on Amazon) if you have the same. One push of the button and it will put your PD into bulk charge and take the BattleBorns up to 14.4V. Otherwise the PD will keep it at 13.6V with absorption rate which is considered full charge.
    Robin & John
    2020 Ram 3500 LB SRW 4WD Crew Laramie 6.7HO Aisin, 55gal Titan
    2022 Solitude 310GK-R - Dual pane, factory solar & Onan, 8K axles with discs, 18K GVWR, W/D, Heat Pump, Goosebox, Battleborn

    2023 stays

  7. #7
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Txdabj1 View Post
    Soundsailor, thanks for your reply. The new converter/charger is a 60 amp Progressive Dynamics. The existing converter/charger is also 60 amp. I think the 6 gauge wire is enough but some people say it is better to go to a higher gauge.
    The LFP batteries (your new Battleborns) will allow considerably more current to flow while charging than the Flooded Lead Acid batteries will. 6ga wire/cable is right on the edge of capacity for that wire size, so going bigger can do nothing but help get the new batteries charged at a faster rate. Part of the issue with the OEM 6ga wiring is also connections that may be....let's say, not so good, causing a voltage drop from the charge source to the actual battery. Combine that with more current flow to the LPF batteries, and the voltage drop will be worse. The net effect will be that the batteries do not charge as fast as they would will larger wire/cable, and new connectors that are crimped properly, thus eliminating some/most of the voltage drop.

    When I did mine on our Momentum, from the charger to the battery, I had between .6 and .65 volts of drop, due to the wire gauge and the less than good connection points along the way. Some of them were the actual OEM battery cutoff switch, some were the 12V buss, some were the actual connectors. So I took the existing wire/cables out and replaced them with #2 cable, crimped on new connectors, replaced the battery disconnect switch with a new Blue Seas switch, AND...move the converter/Charger closer to the battery itself. The end results paid off with a .1 voltage drop. So now, my battery is getting all that the charger can put out voltage wise....less 1/10 volt. Just something to think about.
    2016 F350 CrewCab Dually
    2018 Momentum 394M...Heavily Modded!
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    Excessive Payload is a Wonderful Thing

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  8. #8
    Seasoned Camper
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    I just did this, a month or so ago.

    Same trailer, same setup.


    Two 100Ah Battle Born batteries and new, compatible 60-amp converter/charger.

    There is also (if I remember correctly) a low-voltage detection circuit that has to be either added to the main circuit breaker panel or a new, replacement panel (with the circuit built-in) installed.

    I was lucky - all my stock panel needed was a chip swapped out to add the detection circuit.


    ALSO, the batteries were moved to the inside of the front storage compartment, across from the Nautilus.

    There were several reasons for this:

    1. It makes it harder to steal those expensive batteries

    2. It keeps them warm, in the wintertime

    3. It shortens the cables, reducing voltage loss (not much, but we are not talking mega-current, here)

    4. It reduces tongue weight a smidgeon

    5. No need to buy an additional/bigger/heavier battery box


    Tongue weight on these trailers is always an issue, so any ounces you can save, do so! (Said he who added a washer and a dryer!)

    A heavy, metal dual battery box is not the way I would want to go.


    The stock 6-gauge cables are plenty big enough.

    Unless you totally deplete the batteries and manage to get them to draw the max current out of the converter (meaning nothing else in the trailer is drawing current), you are not going to get any benefit out of larger wire other than peace of mind and a lighter wallet.

    Don’t fret about voltage drop through the wire.

    It IS a thing, but it is more theory than worry.

    Less than a 1 volt voltage drop is not worth the time, money, effort or worry.


    Your OCD may vary!


    Bottom line: it ain’t necessary, but it won’t hurt.


    The neat thing about these Battle Borns is that they have so many charge cycles that you don’t really have to be religious about how much goes in them how many times at what rate of charge or discharge or…

    The things are going to last ten years, pretty much no matter how you use them.

    Most folks will have traded units, by then.
    Last edited by Najataagihe; 05-30-2023 at 07:43 PM.
    2023 Reflection 315RLTS
    2017 Ford F-350 Crew Cab Short Bed SRW, 6.7L Diesel
    Hensley Swift Arrow

  9. #9
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Najataagihe View Post
    I just did this, a month or so ago.

    Same trailer, same setup.


    Two 100Ah Battle Born batteries and new, compatible 60-amp converter/charger.

    There is also (if I remember correctly) a low-voltage detection circuit that has to be either added to the main circuit breaker panel or a new, replacement panel (with the circuit built-in) installed.

    I was lucky - all my stock panel needed was a chip swapped out to add the detection circuit.


    ALSO, the batteries were moved to the inside of the front storage compartment, across from the Nautilus.

    There were several reasons for this:

    1. It makes it harder to steal those expensive batteries

    2. It keeps them warm, in the wintertime

    3. It shortens the cables, reducing voltage loss (not much, but we are not talking mega-current, here)

    4. It reduces tongue weight a smidgeon

    5. No need to buy an additional/bigger/heavier battery box


    Tongue weight on these trailers is always an issue, so any ounces you can save, do so! (Said he who added a washer and a dryer!)

    A heavy, metal dual battery box is not the way I would want to go.


    The stock 6-gauge cables are plenty big enough.

    Unless you totally deplete the batteries and manage to get them to draw the max current out of the converter (meaning nothing else in the trailer is drawing current), you are not going to get any benefit out of larger wire other than peace of mind and a lighter wallet.

    Don’t fret about voltage drop through the wire.

    It IS a thing, but it is more theory than worry.


    Less than a 1 volt voltage drop is not worth the time, money, effort or worry.


    Your OCD may vary!


    Bottom line: it ain’t necessary, but it won’t hurt.


    The neat thing about these Battle Borns is that they have so many charge cycles that you don’t really have to be religious about how much goes in them how many times at what rate of charge or discharge or…

    The things are going to last ten years, pretty much no matter how you use them.

    Most folks will have traded units, by then.
    Regarding the areas of you post that I have bolded above...

    6ga wire is at the very edge of it's current carrying capacity when LFP batteries are installed...especially with a 60A capable charger output. If there are other 12V devices running and the Converter/Charger is trying to charge the battery, all of that current has to go through 6 ga wire. So a #4 or even a #2 ga wire, which will have less resistance per foot, can help cut down on the heating of the wire as it approaches it's current capacity.

    You don't have to deplete the battery in order for the charger to go into bulk charging mode, not sure where you got your info on that one. And between bulk charging mode and the LFP batteries have a much lower internal resistance than FLA, you can easily see everything the Converter Charger is capable of outputting, in this case...60A

    You say not to fret about voltage drop....well, that's wrong also. A 1 volt drop will will be the difference between a LFP battery being fully charged, or not An LFP battery is considered to be fully charged at 13.8V...or 3.45V per cell. Most LFP chargers will output 14.5 to 14.6 volts, so a 1 volt drop takes that output voltage down to 13.5 or 13.6 volts, which is obviously less voltage applied to a battery that has to have at least 13.8 volts to be fully charged. Even if the voltage drop was only .7 or .8 volts and the battery got to 13.8 volts.....the length of time it would take to charge the battery would be greatly extended. All of those factors.....large enough wire, good low resistance connections, breakers, battery disconnects, are all a part of getting the most out of the charger and the battery.

    Nothing I wrote above is opinion, it is factual information whether you choose to believe it or not......and that should pretty much address all of the bolded statements above.
    2016 F350 CrewCab Dually
    2018 Momentum 394M...Heavily Modded!
    2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000 GT+
    Excessive Payload is a Wonderful Thing

    "If it ain't fast....It ain't Fun"

  10. #10
    Rolling Along
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    Quote Originally Posted by Txdabj1 View Post
    Soundsailor, thanks for your reply. The new converter/charger is a 60 amp Progressive Dynamics. The existing converter/charger is also 60 amp. I think the 6 gauge wire is enough but some people say it is better to go to a higher gauge.
    Unless you are changing the charger to a higher amperage converter or adding additional draw devices, there really isn't a "need" to change out the wiring. Is it better? Sure. But it's unnecessary. Changing over to Lithium doesn't do anything to require thicker wires. Your fuses and such will all still work for a lithium battery.

    Unless you are also planning on increasing converter ability that will exceed the current 6ga or otherwise increasing load, I wouldn't invest in thicker cable. The benefit will be minimal vs cost.

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