Ford F-350 Lightning Coming Sooner Than We Think !!!

[COGrandDes]

Here’s some info for reference.

We get about 8.5 mpg pulling a 380FL with a 3500 Ram dually. Max range is about 380 miles (45 gals) leaving a 50 mile reserve.

With the following assumptions - `137,000 btus/gal of diesel and 35% engine thermal efficiency - that 380 miles takes 632.2 kWh of useful energy. That is the equivalent of taking 527 Battleborn 100 ah batteries from 100% to 0% in the 380 miles.

I think the important word is “light” trailer. I’ve got no gripe with electric vehicles. For automobiles and light trucks, they are far more energy efficient than gasoline engines. They can also be very convenient. Come home from work, plug in in your garage, and you are good to go the next morning. I just wish there was honesty in the push for them. Given the carbon footprint of battery production, there is a serious question of whether they produce fewer lifecycle greenhouse gases. I also wish the people who can’t use them didn’t have to help pay for them for the people who can.

I think the best implementation is a vehicle with a small diesel engine, running at optimal RPM efficiency whenever needed, connected to a generator and charging a small battery bank which powers electric drive motors. Lots of torque, dynamic braking, and very fuel efficient. The battery bank would cover the short term, high torque needs. Best of all, it would use conventional fueling.

I still don’t think this would work for pulling a heavy load up a long hill.

Totally agree and honesty is the key. Another main concern is the readiness of the US electric grid to support these additional electrical loads. Many cities and states in the US can't even support the electrical demands of their customers using their AC units for some number of hours per day. What does that look like if we are now taking that reduced available energy and dividing it up to charge EVs? As a person that's been in the auto industry for 40+ years....look how long it's taken us to get the diesel truck market where it is and the efficiencies of those engines today. I think we should be pressing for hybrids for the foreseeable future in order to address our electric grid, battery technologies, charging stations and a host of the other issues that EVs introduce.

On the EV towing---I've watched the EV vehicles attempt to tow a small load here in the mountains of CO via all the You Tube videos. Their 350-mile range is depleted after 100 miles of mountainous driving. No thanks!

[SolarPoweredRV]

Ford has already said that if they go full EV they will get rid of half of their work force.

That statement is a direct contradiction to what Jim Farley said in the video referenced above. What he said is that Ford will vertically integrate more of the Electric Vehicles, which will continue to provide jobs for their workforce. As an example; he stated that Ford is making their own axles for their EVs and that Ford has never before made their own axles.

[traveldawg]

[QUOTE=
you can plug your camper into the truck and power every electrical system in it for days. Not possible with any other Tow Vehicle. Just imagine the places you could get to with a smaller camper and your four-wheel drive Lightning. [/QUOTE]

No way can I imagine any of this....

How does one recharge the electric vehicle? Somehow, somewhere either the vehicle or the rig has to get EXTERNAL POWER for a recharge. Oh! Solar - yea that's cost effective!

People keep talking EVs yet the power grid can't even support what is on it now! Take a look at rolling blackouts in CA. Or the grid problems TX has in storms and cold.

Can you imagine a large apartment complex and everyone has an electric vehicle? How may chargers are needed? Forget sharing - already there are people parking non-electric vehicles in charger locations, and folks pulling out other's power cords (breaking the vehicle in the process) just to get a charge when all the charger slots are taken.

And where does this electricity come from to begin with? Oh - that's right... coal fired plants are still the choice for many electric companies; or gas - both fossil fuels.

Let's think about where the Lithium comes from - I believe right now China has a lock on it worldwide; it's why Musk is there now negotiating for battery supplies. Or maybe a third world company - not made in the USA; so when global shortages exist you can sit a polish that shiny trinket while waiting your turn for an electric source.

Total electric just does not make sense. Hybrid seems a wiser choice. To me folks just have their heads stuck where the sun doesn't shine if they think we can go all electric.

When our son and DIL had to move with the Tesla from Denver to the East coast guess who got the job of towing it behind their truck to avoid having to stop and charge the Tesla batteries (at Tesla charger locations) 13 times.

Still shaking my head at all this electric hype....... I'm not totally against electric; just against totally electric. Fossil fuel will continue to power industry and transportation for many years to come. Just keep up the focus for clean burning fossil fuels - like most modern automobiles are now.

[SolarPoweredRV]

No way can I imagine any of this....

How does one recharge the electric vehicle? Somehow, somewhere either the vehicle or the rig has to get EXTERNAL POWER for a recharge. Oh! Solar - yea that's cost effective!

People keep talking EVs yet the power grid can't even support what is on it now! Take a look at rolling blackouts in CA. Or the grid problems TX has in storms and cold.

Can you imagine a large apartment complex and everyone has an electric vehicle? How may chargers are needed? Forget sharing - already there are people parking non-electric vehicles in charger locations, and folks pulling out other's power cords (breaking the vehicle in the process) just to get a charge when all the charger slots are taken.

And where does this electricity come from to begin with? Oh - that's right... coal fired plants are still the choice for many electric companies; or gas - both fossil fuels.

Let's think about where the Lithium comes from - I believe right now China has a lock on it worldwide; it's why Musk is there now negotiating for battery supplies. Or maybe a third world company - not made in the USA; so when global shortages exist you can sit a polish that shiny trinket while waiting your turn for an electric source.

Total electric just does not make sense. Hybrid seems a wiser choice. To me folks just have their heads stuck where the sun doesn't shine if they think we can go all electric.

When our son and DIL had to move with the Tesla from Denver to the East coast guess who got the job of towing it behind their truck to avoid having to stop and charge the Tesla batteries (at Tesla charger locations) 13 times.

Still shaking my head at all this electric hype....... I'm not totally against electric; just against totally electric. Fossil fuel will continue to power industry and transportation for many years to come. Just keep up the focus for clean burning fossil fuels - like most modern automobiles are now.

No way can I imagine any of this....

Let me help you imagine how this would work...

First, you would travel from your home to somewhere near your desired camping spot, say within 50 miles of your destination, where you would charge up your Tow Vehicle to between 80% and 100% full. Then you travel 50 miles to your camping spot, camp for a few days leaving enough energy in your batteries to make it back to the charging spot. Then you charge up and head for home, stopping once or twice to charge depending on how far you traveled. Once you have camped with your Tow Vehicle a few times, you will be able to gauge how many days you can camp before you need to head out for a charge or leave for home.

As far as a large apartment complex goes, there is already a model that proves the concept of having electricity at every parking spot. Up North, in the cold, cold, Winter, every vehicle needs to be "plugged in" to keep the engine warm enough to start. There are also outlets at restaurants and shops where everybody plugs in while patronizing the businesses. Same concept applies for EV charging, just with 220 volts.

Apartment complexes would be incentivized to install EV Charging stations because Renters would begin asking for EV charging as a condition of renting the apartment. If the complex did not have EV charging, the Renter chooses a different complex.

As far as the unplugging and vandalism goes, well, jealousy is a fickle beast, many of the vandalism incidents against EVs can only be described as being motivated by jealousy, otherwise, how do you explain a random stranger walking up to an EV trying to unplug it, or worse yet, keying the car and walking away. As EVs become common place, these incidents should begin to wane.

The electric grid in this country is adding more, and more, renewables every year. Consequently, the energy grid is getting "cleaner" every year. Just last year Renewables surpassed Coal as a percentage of the energy mix. Obviously, EVs will not comprise 100% of all cars on the road for many years (even if only EVs were allowed to be sold). Consequently, Electric Utilities will be able to plan for higher energy usage from EVs and install the necessary capacity over time. Studies have shown that Electric usage due to EVs will only require the Energy Grid to grow by about the same annual percentage as it has historically been growing.

In reference to the "Brown Outs" and "Cold Weather" events, EVs did not cause the problems with the grid, nor did they exacerbate the problems, if anything a large number of EVs can actually help the grid by acting as a huge "Virtual Battery", when all EVs have "Vehicle to Grid" (V2G) technology that allows the utility to call upon every EV to give some energy back to the grid during peak demand, V2G technology from EVs will actually help the Grid. As far as EV charging being a burden on the grid, EV can be set to charge up overnight while energy demand on the system is low. This feature actually allows better utilization of the existing grid because there is excess capacity on the grid during the overnight hours (~12am to 5am).

In reference to the Lithium supply for the batteries, China does not have a "lock" on the Lithium mineral, they do, however, process 80% of the battery grade Lithium which is needed for EVs. Tesla is building a Lithium processing facility in Texas to produce battery grade Lithium for their factories. There are other companies that are also working on facilities to produce battery grade Lithium in North America. To this end, the IRA bill has already proven to be effective in enticing battery and automotive companies to open plants in the US, it will also entice new Lithium processors to open new facilities in the US.

As far as your Son and DIL not wanting to drive their Tesla across country because of the charging stops, I can't explain (understand) that. Teslas are very capable EVs with the best charging network available in the US, they are more than capable of making it cross country I just don't see making 13 (approx 30 minute) stops on a long trip which would allow me to take a break from driving and get back on the road more alert as being a bad thing. Honestly, I know I have to eat and pee along the way anyway, so, what is the big deal? Yes, you might add a few hours to a three day trip, but if you had to stop for food and to refresh yourself anyway, how much tome would it really have added to the trip?

[huntindog]

IMO..... Im betting on virtual camping/vacation becomming more popular than full electric tow vehicle camping.... too many obstacles, including cost, convenience, distance to overcome. Much easier/cheaper to design, create, and put on a set of virtual reality headsets, than to deal with all the nuances of electric tow vehicles of any size, distance, and or electricity requirements. Not to mention nature related issues that can hamper real vacations too.

Until they can come up with eletric highways from point A to B (like a rail system where vehicles are supplied power and dont have to carry/maintain it themselves, its just to costly and cumbersome for the masses to swap over end enjoy like today with Dino POVs. Infact, maybe ownership will be taken over by rentals?

Seen some interesting concepts of auto driver type vehicles for large city transportation challenges that are being kicked around that seems alot more reasonable with where the scientists, environmentalists and futurists want to go. Until then maybe hybrid tow vehicles.... but still costly and not very eco-friendly dealing with dino power still.

I have been saying this for years. This would mean a much smaller battery could be used, which will lower the cost and solve the battery materials problem...
And the best part: it could be done NOW!. no more hoping some new tech will solve the EV problems later on. The tech to do this already exsists.

[huntindog]

No way can I imagine any of this....

Let me help you imagine how this would work...

First, you would travel from your home to somewhere near your desired camping spot, say within 50 miles of your destination, where you would charge up your Tow Vehicle to between 80% and 100% full. Then you travel 50 miles to your camping spot, camp for a few days leaving enough energy in your batteries to make it back to the charging spot. Then you charge up and head for home, stopping once or twice to charge depending on how far you traveled. Once you have camped with your Tow Vehicle a few times, you will be able to gauge how many days you can camp before you need to head out for a charge or leave for home.

As far as a large apartment complex goes, there is already a model that proves the concept of having electricity at every parking spot. Up North, in the cold, cold, Winter, every vehicle needs to be "plugged in" to keep the engine warm enough to start. There are also outlets at restaurants and shops where everybody plugs in while patronizing the businesses. Same concept applies for EV charging, just with 220 volts.

Apartment complexes would be incentivized to install EV Charging stations because Renters would begin asking for EV charging as a condition of renting the apartment. If the complex did not have EV charging, the Renter chooses a different complex.

As far as the unplugging and vandalism goes, well, jealousy is a fickle beast, many of the vandalism incidents against EVs can only be described as being motivated by jealousy, otherwise, how do you explain a random stranger walking up to an EV trying to unplug it, or worse yet, keying the car and walking away. As EVs become common place, these incidents should begin to wane.

The electric grid in this country is adding more, and more, renewables every year. Consequently, the energy grid is getting "cleaner" every year. Just last year Renewables surpassed Coal as a percentage of the energy mix. Obviously, EVs will not comprise 100% of all cars on the road for many years (even if only EVs were allowed to be sold). Consequently, Electric Utilities will be able to plan for higher energy usage from EVs and install the necessary capacity over time. Studies have shown that Electric usage due to EVs will only require the Energy Grid to grow by about the same annual percentage as it has historically been growing.

In reference to the "Brown Outs" and "Cold Weather" events, EVs did not cause the problems with the grid, nor did they exacerbate the problems, if anything a large number of EVs can actually help the grid by acting as a huge "Virtual Battery", when all EVs have "Vehicle to Grid" (V2G) technology that allows the utility to call upon every EV to give some energy back to the grid during peak demand, V2G technology from EVs will actually help the Grid. As far as EV charging being a burden on the grid, EV can be set to charge up overnight while energy demand on the system is low. This feature actually allows better utilization of the existing grid because there is excess capacity on the grid during the overnight hours (~12am to 5am).

In reference to the Lithium supply for the batteries, China does not have a "lock" on the Lithium mineral, they do, however, process 80% of the battery grade Lithium which is needed for EVs. Tesla is building a Lithium processing facility in Texas to produce battery grade Lithium for their factories. There are other companies that are also working on facilities to produce battery grade Lithium in North America. To this end, the IRA bill has already proven to be effective in enticing battery and automotive companies to open plants in the US, it will also entice new Lithium processors to open new facilities in the US.

As far as your Son and DIL not wanting to drive their Tesla across country because of the charging stops, I can't explain that. Teslas are very capable EVs with the best charging network available in the US, they are more than capable of making it cross country I just don't see making 13 (approx 30 minute) stops on a long trip which would allow me to take a break from driving and get back on the road more alert as being a bad thing. Honestly, I know I have to eat and pee along the way anyway, so, what is the big deal? Yes, you might add a few hours to a three day trip, but if you had to stop for food and to refresh yourself anyway, how much tome would it really have added to the trip?

Hmmmm. I just got a letter from APS. It seems that they are thinking the grid here in Phoenix will have capacity problems this summer. They have come up with a plan. They will Text/email us when they need us to save electricity, and the times. The next day they will tell us how we did. It is voluntary........for now anyways.
I guess all those EVs need charging, So I will be asked to sweat for it

[COGrandDes]

No way can I imagine any of this....

Let me help you imagine how this would work...

First, you would travel from your home to somewhere near your desired camping spot, say within 50 miles of your destination, where you would charge up your Tow Vehicle to between 80% and 100% full. Then you travel 50 miles to your camping spot, camp for a few days leaving enough energy in your batteries to make it back to the charging spot. Then you charge up and head for home, stopping once or twice to charge depending on how far you traveled. Once you have camped with your Tow Vehicle a few times, you will be able to gauge how many days you can camp before you need to head out for a charge or leave for home.

As far as a large apartment complex goes, there is already a model that proves the concept of having electricity at every parking spot. Up North, in the cold, cold, Winter, every vehicle needs to be "plugged in" to keep the engine warm enough to start. There are also outlets at restaurants and shops where everybody plugs in while patronizing the businesses. Same concept applies for EV charging, just with 220 volts.

Apartment complexes would be incentivized to install EV Charging stations because Renters would begin asking for EV charging as a condition of renting the apartment. If the complex did not have EV charging, the Renter chooses a different complex.

As far as the unplugging and vandalism goes, well, jealousy is a fickle beast, many of the vandalism incidents against EVs can only be described as being motivated by jealousy, otherwise, how do you explain a random stranger walking up to an EV trying to unplug it, or worse yet, keying the car and walking away. As EVs become common place, these incidents should begin to wane.

The electric grid in this country is adding more, and more, renewables every year. Consequently, the energy grid is getting "cleaner" every year. Just last year Renewables surpassed Coal as a percentage of the energy mix. Obviously, EVs will not comprise 100% of all cars on the road for many years (even if only EVs were allowed to be sold). Consequently, Electric Utilities will be able to plan for higher energy usage from EVs and install the necessary capacity over time. Studies have shown that Electric usage due to EVs will only require the Energy Grid to grow by about the same annual percentage as it has historically been growing.

In reference to the "Brown Outs" and "Cold Weather" events, EVs did not cause the problems with the grid, nor did they exacerbate the problems, if anything a large number of EVs can actually help the grid by acting as a huge "Virtual Battery", when all EVs have "Vehicle to Grid" (V2G) technology that allows the utility to call upon every EV to give some energy back to the grid during peak demand, V2G technology from EVs will actually help the Grid. As far as EV charging being a burden on the grid, EV can be set to charge up overnight while energy demand on the system is low. This feature actually allows better utilization of the existing grid because there is excess capacity on the grid during the overnight hours (~12am to 5am).

In reference to the Lithium supply for the batteries, China does not have a "lock" on the Lithium mineral, they do, however, process 80% of the battery grade Lithium which is needed for EVs. Tesla is building a Lithium processing facility in Texas to produce battery grade Lithium for their factories. There are other companies that are also working on facilities to produce battery grade Lithium in North America. To this end, the IRA bill has already proven to be effective in enticing battery and automotive companies to open plants in the US, it will also entice new Lithium processors to open new facilities in the US.

As far as your Son and DIL not wanting to drive their Tesla across country because of the charging stops, I can't explain that. Teslas are very capable EVs with the best charging network available in the US, they are more than capable of making it cross country I just don't see making 13 (approx 30 minute) stops on a long trip which would allow me to take a break from driving and get back on the road more alert as being a bad thing. Honestly, I know I have to eat and pee along the way anyway, so, what is the big deal? Yes, you might add a few hours to a three day trip, but if you had to stop for food and to refresh yourself anyway, how much tome would it really have added to the trip?

WOW----I just had to laugh......reminds me of when my neighbor who's a pilot visited Las Vegas and saw the Tesla charging station there. He said it was full of cars charging and others waiting to be charged. As he looked behind it....there was a huge diesel generator plant running the charging station. The gen plant was rolling out black smoke to generate the "clean" power to charge the Teslas. Just makes me shake my head!

[SolarPoweredRV]

Hmmmm. I just got a letter from APS. It seems that they are thinking the grid here in Phoenix will have capacity problems this summer. They have come up with a plan. They will Text/email us when they need us to save electricity, and the times. The next day they will tell us how we did. It is voluntary........for now anyways.
I guess all those EVs need charging, So I will be asked to sweat for it

I am willing to bet you will not be asked to cut back on your energy usage between 12 am and 5 am, the hours when most EVs are charged.

You are going to be asked to cut back late in the afternoon and into the evening when Air Conditioning usage is at the MAX.

[SolarPoweredRV]

WOW----I just had to laugh......reminds me of when my neighbor who's a pilot visited Las Vegas and saw the Tesla charging station there. He said it was full of cars charging and others waiting to be charged. As he looked behind it....there was a huge diesel generator plant running the charging station. The gen plant was rolling out black smoke to generate the "clean" power to charge the Teslas. Just makes me shake my head!

Yea, I am not buying that scenario. At worst the generator was running as a backup, either as a weekly test run, or because the grid was temporarily down, both of which I find hard to believe because Tesla backs up their charging stations with Mega Pack battery units.

I am thinking what your buddy actually saw was the generator for a hotel, or other business, behind the Tesla charging station.

By-the-way, Tesla offsets all of their charging stations energy use with 100% renewable energy.

[Dakota]

It sounds good. Reports are the current electric pickup truck can tow a 3000 pound trailer and get 90 miles on a charge.