Rally Meeting with Lippert

[Cate&Rob]

My notes from the meeting . . . others in attendance please chime in with your perspectives.

The "Chassis Roundtable" meeting (my term) covered several suspension and brake concerns.

What Correct Track can and cannot do. Specifically, it can be used to align the axles parallel to each other and at a right angle to the pin. It cannot correct toe or camber problems (which are usually caused by a bent axle or spindle). See parallel forum thread on alignment.

The brake adjustment process was discussed and it was confirmed that all 5200, 6000 and 7000 lb axles have manually adjusted brakes, because this is how Grand Design chooses to equip these coaches.

Grease on the Brakes . . .
Lippert says they have made no changes to seals/grease/hub/spindle since Grand Design started production.
A Brake Contamination FAQ sheet was provided . . . (no big surprises here). I will scan and post when we get home.
They acknowledged that complaints from Grand Design owners are more frequent than from other manufacturers.
1 in 10,000 warranty claim rate across all RV customers was quoted.
We pointed out that we had a much higher occurrence rate than that (in the room) and that many just do not report this issue to Lippert.
Lippert is investigating, but cannot find a trend or a root cause from what has been reported to them.
The group offered our observation that early builds seem to be better than late and grease quality rather than seal problems might be the "red X".
I referred to my findings of oil in the grease and provided Lippert with the info (attached here) that was shared with this forum a while ago.
Lippert seemed quite surprised by this information.

There were no "great learnings" announced or discovered at this meeting, but it was an open and honest exchange of information and ideas. I think that Lippert truly does not know what the root cause is, but is feeling significant pressure from Grand Design to get this resolved.

Rob

[Norcalrv1]

Thank you, Rob.
Rod

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[minnow101]

I think what needs to be done by Lippert is for them to analyze the grease in our axles. Is it water ? Is it because the grease is seperating from the oil ? My first thought when opening up my hub was that the axles had been under water and water had migrated into the axle spindle. Since the axles are not attached to the frames when these components are sent to GD, possibly something occurred at GD. What was the build date of the affected units ? But is does not seem that this should be that difficult of a mystery to solve if one starts to ask some questions. And I don't know if I buy the story that only GD RV's seem to be affected here. It might be just that GD owners have been the most vocal about it. Remember, you don't know what you don't know. Some calls to RV dealership service centers that sell different brands with Lippert axles might yield some information too. Lippert needs to stop sitting around a table scratching their backsides and start to get eyewitness reports and samples of wheel bearing grease from affected units.

[Cate&Rob]

minnow101,

Lippert is fully aware that this is their problem to solve, but they have very little "real data" to go on.
Most owners just clean the brakes, repack the bearings, replace the seals . . . and all the evidence that Lippert could analyze, is gone.
When you repaired your hubs, did you send them pictures and perhaps a sample of the grease/oil/water that you found ?
My read is that Lippert would be really receptive to receiving this kind of "first hand" information to work from.

Rob

[Norcalrv1]

Rob, I do have a question.
I have a 2014 RAM 3500 that has a weight rating of 14000 pounds. I have a grand design with a rate rating of 14000 pounds. They weigh the same. The truck has massive disc brakes and an exhaust brake. The grand design 337 has the same brakes and brake technology as my 1965 VW Bug which weighed only 1800 pounds. All of my braking is done by the exhaust brake. I have a problem with this. I know we have discussed going to discs but why the lack prudence in the product that is delivered to us. Grand design might like to answer this.
Rod

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[mageorge]

Thank you Rob. Mike


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[CManley]

Great notes, thanks


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[minnow101]

Rob,
Then Lippert needs to let us know what they need. But they aren't about to do that as that opens up a big kettle of stinky fish. However a more low key and simplier way is to make contact with their dealer network asking them for these samples. Like I said in my first comment, jawboning will yield little results. Lippert needs to make calls and get some samples of both grease and seals. The quickest way to do that is from the service departments.

[minnow101]

Rob,
Also thanks for engaging Lippert on behalf of the rest of us.

[LCBoyer]

Anyone having greasy brakes needs to contact Lippert directly. If you take corrective actions, even at advice of Grand a Design Representatives, you are on your own