Upgrading Inverter and LiPro batteries

[BobinICT]

Current setup has been working well but I want to upgrade my inverter the a Renogy 3000 and the batteries from current 210 AH to 600 Ah.

Everything is installed on the front wall. All battery power is supplied with 2/0 quality wiring now. 10AWG for all solar wiring. Lion batteries, two, are on the A-frame in a duel battery box. Everything runs into buss bars with main shutoff from the batteries to the system and a 200 amp T circuit breaker feeding the current 1800 watt inverter that will be replaced. Victron components for everything. Charge controller 100/50, 500 AMP shunt, temp sensor on the batteries, all working nice with each other. 600 watts on the roof that preform well and an additional 200 watt portable panel that runs through its own controller also feeding into the main system if needed.

I'm not planning to upgrade the solar so I will have what I have. Installed a WFCO AD converter that frankly I'm not happy with as the most I've seen come out of it is just under 10 AMPS. And yes, it does have the nice blue lite so it is working properly. I'm pretty sure it's because of the wire size and long run. Not going down that rabbit hole to run wiring just for it.

Here's the plan. First, I'm not going to do anything with the converter, it's going to stay off and never be used anymore. I'm planning to install a Victron Blue Smart IP22 30 AMP charger in the passthrough and manually switch it on and off as needed. I'll just plug it into a 120 outlet in the passthrough and be done with the converter part.

Going to install two LiTime 300 AMP batteries next to the back wall next to the water area thing, run 4/0 from the batteries to the buss bars and then to the new inverter. The Victron temp sensor will be moved to the new batteries in the pass through and the Lion batteries will be removed and sold. I'm thinking of completely disconnecting the 2/0 feed from the current batteries at the buss bars and leaving everything in place in case I think I want to slap another 300 AMP LiTime battery in that battery box and hook it up. I believe the 2/0 should handle the load since any load from the battery bank should be spread out. But, that is only if I end up doing that in the future.

One question I do have is, what would be a good circuit breaker to put between the new battery install to the new inverter? I prefer one that I can reach in and reset if it pops. The current one has popped a couple of times in the past but that's because someone turned on the electric water heater rather that the gas and that with the microwave caused it to pop when we were off grid.

I don't care about low temp protection for the new batteries as I have my soler controller set to not charge at 34 or below and I would never turn on the converter unless temps are within range.

Am I missing anything with this planned upgrade?

[powerscol]

Why not make it simple. Get a Victron multiplus that has the inverter and charger in one unit (also transfer switch). Full programmable charging for any battery and is essentially plug and play. Take shore power to it, the power from it to the 120V distribution pane;, then tie in the batterys and your done, It passes shore power through it if the power is good.

[BobinICT]

Why not make it simple. Get a Victron multiplus that has the inverter and charger in one unit (also transfer switch). Full programmable charging for any battery and is essentially plug and play. Take shore power to it, the power from it to the 120V distribution pane;, then tie in the batterys and your done, It passes shore power through it if the power is good.

Thanks but;

1. Cost. With what I already have the upgrade cost after selling the current batteries will about $800.

2. Running wires.

[powerscol]

Thanks but;

1. Cost. With what I already have the upgrade cost after selling the current batteries will about $800.

2. Running wires.

Understand the cost, but then you have the entire trailer on the inverter so you can run what you want as long as you pay attention to the draw.

As for wires, in most cases the shore power wire to the distribution panel will be long enough to reach the Multiplus depending where you put it. Otherwise it is not that expensive to get the proper size romex for HD or Lowes, etc

Your battery cables should work as is.

Depending on the Multiplus you need (30A or 50A) you can sometimes find great deals (under $1000) NAZ solar has a sale on as well as other sellers - might want to look. The Victron Energy site has a listing of authorized sellers under "Where to buy" Amazon is not an authorized seller.

Grab another cup of coffee and think about it Lots of other advantages too.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

One question I do have is, what would be a good circuit breaker to put between the new battery install to the new inverter?

Well it would normally be a fuse I think, not a breaker. If you blow it you will need to replace. A 3000w inverter will draw at full load somewhere in the 250amp range at 12v. Your manual will likely have a good suggestion for fuse size. I'm guessing it can surge a bit over max so I'll take a WAG at 300 amps?

If it were me, I'd toss the WFCO, buy a 120amp Powermax converter and park it right beside your batteries. That way you only need a couple feet of $$ wire for the 120amp side. But your plan for charging will work...just not overly convenient.
I think the reason your WFCO AD is only pushing 10 amps because it's not that great at actually "Auto-Detecting" the battery type and it probably thinks you have an FLA battery.

[BobinICT]

Well it would normally be a fuse I think, not a breaker. If you blow it you will need to replace. A 3000w inverter will draw at full load somewhere in the 250amp range at 12v. Your manual will likely have a good suggestion for fuse size. I'm guessing it can surge a bit over max so I'll take a WAG at 300 amps?

If it were me, I'd toss the WFCO, buy a 120amp Powermax converter and park it right beside your batteries. That way you only need a couple feet of $$ wire for the 120amp side. But your plan for charging will work...just not overly convenient.
I think the reason your WFCO AD is only pushing 10 amps because it's not that great at actually "Auto-Detecting" the battery type and it probably thinks you have an FLA battery.

Thanks Scoot for your ideas. I'm going to try and use this breaker from LiTime https://www.litime.com/products/liti...epo4-batteries

As for an converter/charger, I feel the Victron one I have narrowed it down to will do the job for what I want. I seldom use converter charging and when I do its because we are on shore power and about to go off grid and the sun has not topped off the bank so I give it a boost just to make sure. I don't mind flipping the charger on when I need it even though it means a reach into the passthrough. I can live with that. As stated, I very seldom use the current converter for charging even when on shore power. My solar preforms well enough that we are usually topped off well before noon just about anytime of the year. Another reason for going with the selected charger is the amps going in if I need to run the generator to top off or charge the battery bank.

The WFCO AD is showing the blue lite so it apparently does recognize the LiPro batteries. It's just limited because of the stock wiring, too small, and the long run so I'm washing my hands of it.

Adding to powerscol's post, the entire trailer as currently set up is powered completely by the inverter now.

[SolarPoweredRV]

Why not make it simple. Get a Victron multiplus that has the inverter and charger in one unit (also transfer switch). Full programmable charging for any battery and is essentially plug and play. Take shore power to it, the power from it to the 120V distribution pane;, then tie in the batterys and your done, It passes shore power through it if the power is good.

Another feature of the Multiplus Inverters is their ability to supplement the Shore Power coming into the coach. For example: you are driveway surfing and only have access to a 20 amp 110v line plugged into the garage. You can set the Inverter to only accept 18 amps from Shore Power and the Inverter will make up the difference (up to the full 30 amps).

The Multiplus also acts as an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) for the whole coach by supplying power whenever the Shore Power connection is lost and by supplimenting Shore Power during "brown outs".

Additionally, The Multiplus Inverter is also a Charger which eliminates your stand alone charger.

I am not familiar with the Renogy specs so it might have some of the features I mentioned above, but Victron seems to be the best Inverters on the market.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

but Victron seems to be the best Inverters on the market.

Agreed..very good kit.....and priced accordingly.

While this is just my own opinion, I prefer separate components..... a stand alone charger, and stand alone inverter.

[SolarPoweredRV]

Thanks Scoot for your ideas. I'm going to try and use this breaker from LiTime https://www.litime.com/products/liti...epo4-batteries

As for an converter/charger, I feel the Victron one I have narrowed it down to will do the job for what I want. I seldom use converter charging and when I do its because we are on shore power and about to go off grid and the sun has not topped off the bank so I give it a boost just to make sure. I don't mind flipping the charger on when I need it even though it means a reach into the passthrough. I can live with that. As stated, I very seldom use the current converter for charging even when on shore power. My solar preforms well enough that we are usually topped off well before noon just about anytime of the year. Another reason for going with the selected charger is the amps going in if I need to run the generator to top off or charge the battery bank.

The WFCO AD is showing the blue lite so it apparently does recognize the LiPro batteries. It's just limited because of the stock wiring, too small, and the long run so I'm washing my hands of it.

Adding to powerscol's post, the entire trailer as currently set up is powered completely by the inverter now.

You don't want to use the Re-settable type fuse, you want to use a "Slow Blow" type fuse like the "MEGA" fuse and fuse block.

The formula to calculate your fuse requirements is Watts divided by Volts equals Amps, (3000/12=250). Consequently, 250 amp fuse is the minimum fuse, however, this does not allow any headroom for surge loads, therefore, I recommend using a 300 amp MEGA, or T-type fuse along with 4/0 cables.

In regards to your Solar system and your new batteries; for the size of your new battery bank, and your additional battery you may add in the future, your 600 Watts of Solar may have a hard time charging your batteries to 100% except on very sunny days. Consequently, I believe you will need to use your charger more often than you think you will.

[Riverbug]

You don't want to use the Re-settable type fuse, you want to use a "Slow Blow" type fuse like the "MEGA" fuse and fuse block.

The formula to calculate your fuse requirements is Watts divided by Volts equals Amps, (3000/12=250). Consequently, 250 amp fuse is the minimum fuse, however, this does not allow any headroom for surge loads, therefore, I recommend using a 300 amp MEGA, or T-type fuse along with 4/0 cables.

In regards to your Solar system and your new batteries; for the size of your new battery bank, and your additional battery you may add in the future, your 600 Watts of Solar may have a hard time charging your batteries to 100% except on very sunny days. Consequently, I believe you will need to use your charger more often than you think you will.

I have to ask because I see so many recommendations to use 4/0 cable for 3000 watt inverter (250A load, plus headroom). I used 2/0 welding cable rated at 325A. I have 300A T-class fuse (along with 150A MSRB fuses at each 12V LFP pack). The same cable at 4/0 is rated at 440A. Why would I need to run 4/0 if 2/0 will meet the specs? Is it just because people like the additional headroom? Or, am I not calculating something correctly? Thanks.