Frame Flex

[Scottyboy]

"All About RV" has you tube video about frame flex on Reflection RV's. The video shows where the frame is lag bolted to the wall in the bedroom area. The video shows after pulling the carpet up, there are only 2 lag bolts in the wall with predrilled empty holes for 3 more. The guy shows how he braced the wall and added 3 more lag bolts.

I looked at my 303RLS and I only have 2 lag bolts per side. Has any body else looked for these lag bolts? Has anybody braced the wall?

[trailrydr]

"All About RV" has you tube video about frame flex on Reflection RV's. The video shows where the frame is lag bolted to the wall in the bedroom area. The video shows after pulling the carpet up, there are only 2 lag bolts in the wall with predrilled empty holes for 3 more. The guy shows how he braced the wall and added 3 more lag bolts.

I looked at my 303RLS and I only have 2 lag bolts per side. Has any body else looked for these lag bolts? Has anybody braced the wall?

Our 150 295RL (similar to the 303 layout) also has the 2 lag bolts on either side.... never had any issues or added extra bracing.

[Jomani]

"All About RV" has you tube video about frame flex on Reflection RV's. The video shows where the frame is lag bolted to the wall in the bedroom area. The video shows after pulling the carpet up, there are only 2 lag bolts in the wall with predrilled empty holes for 3 more. The guy shows how he braced the wall and added 3 more lag bolts.

I looked at my 303RLS and I only have 2 lag bolts per side. Has any body else looked for these lag bolts? Has anybody braced the wall?

That video is enough to scare any Grand Design owner. After I watched it, I pulled up the video series that Big Truck Big RV did on Lipert frame flex and watched all three videos - very good information straight from the frame manufacturer.

I think the best advice they give is to watch the pin box as you hook and unhook from the truck and see if there is any movement (up and down) where the frame protrudes from the front cap. After watching that video, I actually scribed a line on both sides. Now, as I drop the pin down onto the hitch, I can see if there is any movement. If you watch carefully, you will see slight movement which is to be expected.

Personally, I wouldn’t make any modifications unless I saw a change. These frames are designed to flex and are built to allow the body to work with the frame flex. I can’t imagine that GD intentionally left out $5 worth of lag bolts if they were actually needed.

[Calbar]

That video is enough to scare any Grand Design owner. After I watched it, I pulled up the video series that Big Truck Big RV did on Lipert frame flex and watched all three videos - very good information straight from the frame manufacturer.

I think the best advice they give is to watch the pin box as you hook and unhook from the truck and see if there is any movement (up and down) where the frame protrudes from the front cap. After watching that video, I actually scribed a line on both sides. Now, as I drop the pin down onto the hitch, I can see if there is any movement. If you watch carefully, you will see slight movement which is to be expected.

Personally, I wouldn’t make any modifications unless I saw a change. These frames are designed to flex and are built to allow the body to work with the frame flex. I can’t imagine that GD intentionally left out $5 worth of lag bolts if they were actually needed.

Based on the other post about frame flex and a TSB for Momentums and Solitudes I would not agree with that statement. I believe that the piece work paid workers have been doing the minimum that they have to, to get their quotas and leaving out 3 of 5 lag bolts would be a considerable time saver. I know I have an appointment at the dealer to have the TSB addressed on my Solitude.

Rob

[Scottyboy]

That video is enough to scare any Grand Design owner. After I watched it, I pulled up the video series that Big Truck Big RV did on Lipert frame flex and watched all three videos - very good information straight from the frame manufacturer.

I think the best advice they give is to watch the pin box as you hook and unhook from the truck and see if there is any movement (up and down) where the frame protrudes from the front cap. After watching that video, I actually scribed a line on both sides. Now, as I drop the pin down onto the hitch, I can see if there is any movement. If you watch carefully, you will see slight movement which is to be expected.

Personally, I wouldn’t make any modifications unless I saw a change. These frames are designed to flex and are built to allow the body to work with the frame flex. I can’t imagine that GD intentionally left out $5 worth of lag bolts if they were actually needed.

Great idea about scribing the pin box. I will keep an eye on mine. I checked my cousins Solitude today, but the frame is different. The bed has a slide and I could not feel any lag bolts.

Once again,great idea about scribing the pin box.

[Butcher]

I believe that the piece work paid workers have been doing the minimum that they have to, to get their quotas and leaving out 3 of 5 lag bolts would be a considerable time saver.

What proof do you have that the Grand Design workers are paid by the piece?

I spent most of my career as a flat rate Mercedes tech and I do know for a fact that if I left 3 bolts [out of 5] on a wheel, it would indeed save some time. I also know that the comeback would be severe and someone could die. When I was first hired, you paid parts, labor, rental, and the tow bill if you were found responsible for any comeback.

I've worked with and hired hundreds of technicians and although I think 95% of them were hacks, I do not remember anyone that would have purposely done what you are implying. If there was one, they would not have been there a long time. They could not afford to.

I highly doubt of any of us think RV's are overbuilt but I also think many of us could not afford one that was. Short of a Semi, I doubt there would be many that could pull it.

I suspect that Grand Design figured two mounting bolts were good enough. Anything more would be overbuilt. I also suspect that most of us think 5 bolts would be better. Most of us are Americans and most of us believe that bigger is better and more is more better. I see no draw back in adding more bolts and I suspect, as a butcher, I will look into this. Right now, I am trying to get more batteries and reroute the Nautilus plumbing fiasco worked out.

[Scott'n'Wendy]

Lippert frames have had this issue for years and years. I had to test the pin box deflection (as they called it back then) for the same issue back in 2008 or 9? It was a 2005 trailer. If the pin box moved up into the filon more than 10mm....it needed to be repaired.

To the OP, I believe you meant GD rv's. Not Reflections. The flex issue, from what I have heard is only on Solitudes and Momentums. But imo, is on every brand trailer....the heavy ones.

[Calbar]

What proof do you have that the Grand Design workers are paid by the piece?

I spent most of my career as a flat rate Mercedes tech and I do know for a fact that if I left 3 bolts [out of 5] on a wheel, it would indeed save some time. I also know that the comeback would be severe and someone could die. When I was first hired, you paid parts, labor, rental, and the tow bill if you were found responsible for any comeback.

I've worked with and hired hundreds of technicians and although I think 95% of them were hacks, I do not remember anyone that would have purposely done what you are implying. If there was one, they would not have been there a long time. They could not afford to.

I highly doubt of any of us think RV's are overbuilt but I also think many of us could not afford one that was. Short of a Semi, I doubt there would be many that could pull it.

I suspect that Grand Design figured two mounting bolts were good enough. Anything more would be overbuilt. I also suspect that most of us think 5 bolts would be better. Most of us are Americans and most of us believe that bigger is better and more is more better. I see no draw back in adding more bolts and I suspect, as a butcher, I will look into this. Right now, I am trying to get more batteries and reroute the Nautilus plumbing fiasco worked out.

I don't have conclusive proof. What I have seen and heard on forums (taken with a grain of salt of course) is that the workers run around like chickens with their head cut off to get the job done as fast as possible. AKA piece work because they get to go home once they meet their quota for the day. Is this the same at Grand Design, don't know but they are in the same snack bracket as all the other manufacturers and the same area so I doubt they run the plants any differently. This is very different than working as a Mercedes tech or even a Volkswagen or big 3 tech. If you have also watched the Lippert frame flex interviews with the chief engineer he states that all lag bolts need to be put in and that it is a complete system that includes the "house" being bolted on properly during the build process (all lag bolts).

There is also a TSB for this from Grand Design. Either way there is an issue here with missing bolts that Grand Design seems to have stepped up to correct whether it's the workers on the assembly line or management or both it is still not right.

Rob

[goducks14]

They're paid by the hour with incentives like most every other RV manufacture out there.

As far as frame flex on anything but larger full profile and toy haulers I highly doubt there's enough weight added to smaller 5th wheels. The pin weights are low to begin with. Most every frame flex issue I've seen in the last 12 years has been full profile or large toy haulers.

[dbphillips]

Maybe GD would only use 2 of 5, but it's a terrible practice to trust low skill workers (and probably high turnover, as well) to get the correct locations each time. Given the evidence, my money says there should be 5. Lippert are supposed to be the experts, right?