What are you towing your Reflection 150 Series with

**Jandes** · 04-12-2023, 07:24 AM

Educated guesses are far better than uneducated guesses. Having a solid reference point helps make good decisions. I don’t subscribe to the >20% pin weight mentality. Nor do I think the “ assume 20% pin weight “ is good advice. The flaw is it creates a lack of accountability and awareness that the trailer will be overloaded, and unbalanced due to the mindset of I’m good because I know that my truck can handle the weight. 15% isn’t where stability becomes magically ok or marginally safe. Going below 15% does lead to stability issues, but just because you’re at 14.9% doesn’t mean you won’t have control over the trailer. If the the rest of the load is balanced well. If you have all your counter balance on the back wall, you will have problems. If you have the counterbalance on the rear axle or slightly behind, the trailer will be far more stable and as long as you are not driving too fast <60 MPH there is less to worry about. The bigger issue is that folks tow faster than they should. This includes those semi trucks. I like how California has limited all towing vehicles to 55MPH on the highway.
Having too much weight on the pin is just as dangerous as having too little. So is having the weight distribution of the load on the forward and back sides of the trailer. The best way to ensure stability is to keep the weight on or slightly forward of the axles and ensure that you move things around to where they need to be to ensure adequate pin weight. I’m a fan of 15-17%.

**COGrandDes** · 04-12-2023, 11:06 AM

These forums on towing make me laugh. People buy TVs that are on the edge of being too small, under powered and/or limited on suspension and braking and then go to great lengths to try and rationalize their decisions to the audiences and other subscribers. I see it with the half ton trucks and the diesel vs gas engine debate.

As a person that’s been towing 30’+ campers for over 30 years…I’m not sure why anyone would want to over think the loading nor go through an aviation pre-flight checklist for weight and balance every time they leave their driveway or campsite. For me camping is enjoyable and a time to get away without stress. Buying a tow vehicle that’s barely equipped or under equipped for whatever I currently tow or might tow in the future would ruin my stress-free and enjoyable towing experience. I don’t want to count each pound and where it’s placed wondering if I am within the limits of how the vehicle was designed regardless of whether the numbers are magical or not. Yet some go to heroic efforts to move things around and explain why their gas truck pulls just as good as a diesel. Then we pull in towing speed to add more fluff and disguise the root issue of the post! Nice. The speed limits in the West are 75-80 MPH---why on earth would us who live in the West want to tow at 55 MPH?

As others have quoted----everything may seem fine till it’s not. Then it may be too late to compensate or react to making the wrong decision. I prefer to always land in the middle of specs so that I have room for error or changes that may occur. Just because you CAN do something---doesn’t mean you should! I never intentionally make a decision to be at the limit of any type of capacity or engineering requirement from the start. With the cost of everything now days---not sure why a person would want to deal with the hassles of addressing something later based on a bad decision up front. But that’s just me and my 50+ years of experience talking…...

**Hoopy Frood** · 04-12-2023, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by COGrandDes

These forums on towing make me laugh. People buy TVs that are on the edge of being too small, under powered and/or limited on suspension and braking and then go to great lengths to try and rationalize their decisions to the audiences and other subscribers. I see it with the half ton trucks and the diesel vs gas engine debate.

As a person that’s been towing 30’+ campers for over 30 years…I’m not sure why anyone would want to over think the loading nor go through an aviation pre-flight checklist for weight and balance every time they leave their driveway or campsite. For me camping is enjoyable and a time to get away without stress. Buying a tow vehicle that’s barely equipped or under equipped for whatever I currently tow or might tow in the future would ruin my stress-free and enjoyable towing experience. I don’t want to count each pound and where it’s placed wondering if I am within the limits of how the vehicle was designed regardless of whether the numbers are magical or not. Yet some go to heroic efforts to move things around and explain why their gas truck pulls just as good as a diesel. Then we pull in towing speed to add more fluff and disguise the root issue of the post! Nice. The speed limits in the West are 75-80 MPH---why on earth would us who live in the West want to tow at 55 MPH?

As others have quoted----everything may seem fine till it’s not. Then it may be too late to compensate or react to making the wrong decision. I prefer to always land in the middle of specs so that I have room for error or changes that may occur. Just because you CAN do something---doesn’t mean you should! I never intentionally make a decision to be at the limit of any type of capacity or engineering requirement from the start. With the cost of everything now days---not sure why a person would want to deal with the hassles of addressing something later based on a bad decision up front. But that’s just me and my 50+ years of experience talking…...

Did you have those 50+ years of experience when you first started towing? Or did you learn as you went, just as many people do? Many experienced people feel that towing at 70+ mph is also one of those things that "Just because you CAN do something---doesn’t mean you should!".

And "As others have quoted----everything may seem fine till it’s not.".

**COGrandDes** · 04-12-2023, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood

Did you have those 50+ years of experience when you first started towing? Or did you learn as you went, just as many people do? Many experienced people feel that towing at 70+ mph is also one of those things that "Just because you CAN do something---doesn’t mean you should!".

And "As others have quoted----everything may seem fine till it’s not.".

Nah---had to learn to boost my confidence and get it right to stay with the traffic. I've seen allot of accidents in my driving from people trying to get around the slow drivers who block traffic flow. This happens allot in our winters when navigating on the snow and ice. There will always be roads that require extra caution and slower speeds but many like our interstates and highways that allow safer higher speeds.

**Soundsailor** · 04-12-2023, 02:13 PM

Some elements of this discussion seem to be drifting into a lack of civility. I'm going to quote the forum rules: "We take the "be nice" rule VERY seriously!" If you're trying to explain something to a fellow forum member who doesn't seem to be getting it, perhaps it would be useful to imagine how you would explain it to your mother or best friend. You'd be nice, wouldn't you?

**Jandes** · 04-12-2023, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by COGrandDes

These forums on towing make me laugh. People buy TVs that are on the edge of being too small, under powered and/or limited on suspension and braking and then go to great lengths to try and rationalize their decisions to the audiences and other subscribers. I see it with the half ton trucks and the diesel vs gas engine debate.

As a person that’s been towing 30’+ campers for over 30 years…I’m not sure why anyone would want to over think the loading nor go through an aviation pre-flight checklist for weight and balance every time they leave their driveway or campsite. For me camping is enjoyable and a time to get away without stress. Buying a tow vehicle that’s barely equipped or under equipped for whatever I currently tow or might tow in the future would ruin my stress-free and enjoyable towing experience. I don’t want to count each pound and where it’s placed wondering if I am within the limits of how the vehicle was designed regardless of whether the numbers are magical or not. Yet some go to heroic efforts to move things around and explain why their gas truck pulls just as good as a diesel. Then we pull in towing speed to add more fluff and disguise the root issue of the post! Nice. The speed limits in the West are 75-80 MPH---why on earth would us who live in the West want to tow at 55 MPH?

As others have quoted----everything may seem fine till it’s not. Then it may be too late to compensate or react to making the wrong decision. I prefer to always land in the middle of specs so that I have room for error or changes that may occur. Just because you CAN do something---doesn’t mean you should! I never intentionally make a decision to be at the limit of any type of capacity or engineering requirement from the start. With the cost of everything now days---not sure why a person would want to deal with the hassles of addressing something later based on a bad decision up front. But that’s just me and my 50+ years of experience talking…...

Some people can’t afford to spend $80k+ on a truck, and have the camper that they want. They have a truck that can do it, but it’s not a conventional method. So to do the things they want to do inside their means they have to take a less conventional approach. I’m not saying that someone with a 250/2500 or greater truck is doing it wrong. I will say that someone using a 150/1500 is going to have to be more thorough. I am happy that you want to just throw and go. I’m not in your shoes. To do what I do with the truck I have, I have to take some extra care that even the big boys have to do when they are near their limits.

Speed is a contributing factor in the vast majority of accidents. I see it all the time. Too fast for conditions. Speeding around slower traffic results in an accident. The two things slower speeds give folks is reaction time and room to maneuver your vehicle safely. I understand that out west the speed limits are 70-80 mph. It’s still too fast IMO. There are plenty of studies that show fast speeds are enough on their own to induce stability issues. Now add a poorly loaded trailer, an emergency situation, and high speed. It’s a recipe for disaster. My opinion, I’m not going to change they way things are. Just sharing my thoughts and a way to solve the common problem with a different approach.

**COGrandDes** · 04-12-2023, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Jandes

Some people can’t afford to spend $80k+ on a truck, and have the camper that they want. They have a truck that can do it, but it’s not a conventional method. So to do the things they want to do inside their means they have to take a less conventional approach. I’m not saying that someone with a 250/2500 or greater truck is doing it wrong. I will say that someone using a 150/1500 is going to have to be more thorough. I am happy that you want to just throw and go. I’m not in your shoes. To do what I do with the truck I have, I have to take some extra care that even the big boys have to do when they are near their limits.

Speed is a contributing factor in the vast majority of accidents. I see it all the time. Too fast for conditions. Speeding around slower traffic results in an accident. The two things slower speeds give folks is reaction time and room to maneuver your vehicle safely. I understand that out west the speed limits are 70-80 mph. It’s still too fast IMO. There are plenty of studies that show fast speeds are enough on their own to induce stability issues. Now add a poorly loaded trailer, an emergency situation, and high speed. It’s a recipe for disaster. My opinion, I’m not going to change they way things are. Just sharing my thoughts and a way to solve the common problem with a different approach.

All good here and I understand. I have had half ton trucks in the past and towed campers with those too. What I did in the past though was to ensure my camper was well within the capacity of the truck that I had. Some people on this forum recommend that while others seem to take it to the limit or buy the camper first and shoehorn themselves into making their truck work. IMHO....you have to take both into account but that's just the practice that I have followed over the years. I see allot of people towing things here in CO that are very unsafe and they are nearly dragging their tow vehicle. I have asked a few of them ---what's up? They say----ooohhhh this vehicle has plenty of power to pull this load. I tell them so does my 650HP Chevelle but my suspension and brakes are not up to the task. Lol I also regularly attend the RV show each year downtown and listen to the bull that the manufacturers tell the perspective owners about what they can pull with these new trucks. I have pushed back on several of them just to help out the customers before they make a mistake.

I also hear what you are saying with speed and I don't dispute the metrics there. I have also been in other countries though like Germany and driven on the Autobahn at over 150 MPH and never encountered any accidents. I think you have to drive to your comfort zone and the roads and conditions. I don't think there is a one-size fits all speed that should be recommended. I don't fault people for driving under the speed limit in the right lane if that's what they want to do. I am only saying that is one cause of accidents too if the traffic flows are impeded and people can't pass. I probably drive my rig faster than most would but I can assure you it's not done unsafely. I think there can be multiple issues that can contribute to accidents not just speed. My guess is the amount of accidents would also go down more if the speed limits were 45 instead of 55 or 35 instead of 45. It's a risk and return on investment and time that must be weighed by each driver based on their level of confidence, road conditions, time requirements, and such.