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  1. #1
    Setting Up Camp
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    GD Quality ??? Not in my book

    My first GD was an Imagine. A large part of going with GD was based on marketing material that claimed they had a superior post production Q/A to catch the kinds of issues that should never reach the end user. On my first outing that claim fell under some real challenges. The first was a converter that was electrically dead from the factory. No sign of damage or smell just simply didn't power on. I posted that issue on this forum years ago. As I thought about how that got past Q/A I figured that's not an easy one to catch as you would need to leave the trailer on shore power with all 12v devices powered on for a period of time or pull the converter out and test with a meter. I let that one slide. Then I went to use the kitchen sink and water ran out under the cabinet onto the floor. Examining under the sink I found that the plastic collar for the downspout had been over tightened until it was broken in half. The issue I had with this was not only did it pass the supposed Q/A it was known to the assembler who did it and it was a cover up job. I went to the local hardware store and fixed it but at this point GD's claim for post production Q/A had them in the same club as everyone else.

    So when it came time to upgrade to a fifth wheel I had no real preference for GD. My search was solely based on what the wife and I were looking for. As it turned out the 320MKS was the only 5th that hit all the bases for us. One feature that appealed to me was the desk that I'm sitting at to write this missive. Yet here we go again. We made the deal to purchase our unit from LazyDays at an RV show in Tampa 1/22/22. At the time the refrigerator door ajar kept beeping and I noticed the freezer door hing had a sensor switch that had been damaged and then taped together but the tape came loose and resulted in the alarm staying on. I pointed this out to the salesman and he assured me that it would be fixed before I picked up the unit. When we returned on 1/29/22 to complete the deal it still wasn't fixed the salesman assured me that the part was on order and they would send a mobile repair out to install when the part arrived. Didn't want to hold up the deal and I could wait for the repair as we had no travel plans until spring.

    June 8 2022 still not fixed! Supply chain issues. I get it but here's the thing.

    From February to March no less than a dozen calls to LazyDays repair ended up routed VM and none of the msgs I left were ever returned. Already with my Irish up I called GD customer service. (BTW the prompt to wait for a call back instead of waiting in queue don't believe it. Never worked for me). I was promised April for the part which became May then June and now ??? Pandemic or no at what point is this warranty contract considered broken? Now on our summer vacation full timing it for 3-4 months we had an issue where all of a sudden none of the lights in bath or bedroom would work as well as the bedroom A/C. There was no mobile repair available so I took on my own to investigate. Found the issue behind the ceiling light in the bath. One of those 3 way push in wire connectors had a loose wire that pulled away as soon as i touched it. What was odd was the tape on it. I soon found out why the tape was there as when I tried to reinsert the the wire into the connector it became clear the connector was defective which the assembler also discovered hence the tape. I fixed it properly and all good but during my troubleshooting I had pulled the 12v panel out and discovered one of the wires had it's jacket scrapped off leaving about a foot of bare wire (photo attached). Again a cover up job (Ah! nobody will notice).

    So while I had my thinking cap on and realizing that if the refrigerator hing part were to come in I might be reluctantly inclined to fix the fridge myself. So I took to examining what it would take. What I found to my surprise was that the hing on the refrigerator door was also broken as well as the freezer door but the refer door was still operating enough to work the light. However more disturbingly I now realized how it got broken. I could see the marks on the cabinets were the refrigerator was slammed against when it was being installed. Again the installer was no doubt aware of what happened and was no doubt the one who taped the switch on. At any rate where was post production Q/A? All you had to do was open the door to know you had an issue.

    The point of all this venting is that LazyDays and GD if not openly but to themselves need to acknowledge that all of this was preventable and to their dismay of my relentless pursuit of satisfaction are self inflicted pain on their part. None of these should have left the factory and a basic failure to communicate (just love to use this Cool Hand Luke reference) on the part of LazyDays and maybe just a bit of honesty at point of sale or just maybe pick up the damn phone would've kept my Irish down.

    The RV industry just boggles my mind as how their able to foist this shabbyness on us like a captive audience. I can think of another industry back in the 70's and 80's that performed in much that same way. Much to their dismay after we taught the Japanese how to make cars they taught us how to make good ones. Maybe that's what's needed here.

    -Greg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_1331.jpg  
    2022 Ram 3500 Dually Cummins
    2022 Reflection 320 MKS
    My other toy is a Pontoon boat
    Pontoon captain same as a regular captain only drunker ;-)

  2. #2
    Site Team WhittleBurner's Avatar
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    It is quite frustrating finding things that could have been prevented during production then missed by their inspection. I"m not sure what all they inspect but my guess is it is only major fail points like plumbing, especially since increased production fell into place..which they obviously missed on yours. Did they ever even pressure test the water, if they had that cracked collar would have been found and fixed.
    I would also involve the company that made the fridge (or any other component not made by GD) and request warranty replacement on it . Some of the fixes are just plain old easier and faster not to mention done correctly to do youself even if it's a warranty claim.

    FL Lazydays doesn't have the greatest CS after the sale. A friend bought a Reflection from them and was trying to get a propane leak fixed...A big safety issue took more than a few calls to get the leak looked at and fixed by a mobile tech., almost 2 mos. It may have been part of the latest quick connect recall, his was pre recall. He is sttill waiting on a replacement roller shade 6 mos later. I told him to Call GD to see if it was ever ordered.
    Marcy & Gary
    2014 Grand Design - Reflection 303RLS
    2022 GMC 3500 Denali Duramax Longbed SRW
    2015 GMC Denali 3500 - Retired
    2003 F350 - retired
    Michigan
    We're in trouble now, the dog are bloggin'!
    https://3dogsandatrailer.wordpress.com/


  3. #3
    Setting Up Camp
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    Addendum

    I didn't include this above as it ended on a much higher note but still goes to what's up with the Q/A?

    Also on my first outing with the 320MKS at the end of the trip when dumping the black tank as soon as I applied the black tank flush water came running out the bottom and sides of the trailer by the furnace and hot water heater. Thank whatever deity but it wasn't black water.

    There was no way on earth I was going back to LazyDays so I called a much closer GD dealer to me Campers Inn of Ocala. I got an appointment for a week later. Dropped the trailer off and two days later got a call that the vacuum break had been identified as the culprit and was ordered. If I wanted to I was told I could pick up the trailer to use while waiting for the part. I declined as I didn't have any immediate plans. 3 days after that I received a call that the fix was complete and I could pick it up. Wow!

    I went to pick it up and decided to go for a hail Mary pass. Also on the first outing the foot on one of the rear stabilizers fell off and asked if a warranty claim could be tried. To be clear I drove the trailer from LazyDays parked in my driveway then took it to my first campsite and when I went to deploy the stabilizers I saw the missing foot which I knew was there when I got the trailer. I can only guess that the pin was missing and the foot was just waiting to be jarred enough to fall off.

    The service manager said he would try. I got unsolicited calls from him notifying first that the claim was accepted and then after about a week an update that he was still waiting for the part. Ah Hah! Communication. How refreshing. I can't say enough good things about the difference in service. Would have bought my trailer from Campers Inn in the first place but they didn't have the 320MKS.

    However, here again where was the Q/A at GD??? This was simple to discover just apply water pressure. If you look back at all the items I've detailed you have to ask yourself what exactly does this Q/A process consist of. Some guy with a clipboard walk around the trailer and if it ain't visibly broken, hanging off or missing it passes?

    The foot finally came in and as I was on the road Campers Inn shipped the foot to me no charge :-)

    -Greg
    2022 Ram 3500 Dually Cummins
    2022 Reflection 320 MKS
    My other toy is a Pontoon boat
    Pontoon captain same as a regular captain only drunker ;-)

  4. #4
    Big Traveler
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    And now GD sales and manufacturing is slowing down according to a forum member who works at a dealership in the know. You think part of their down time will be to address parts, assembly, and QA issues? Or, just focus on pushing the remaining stock that might be comming? Hmmm...

    Me thinks their will be happiness for some that they can start picking up better deals, and others who GD will have to rebuild their QA assurance. If only they would have been the ones to set the example during this last rush... they'd be great at both now and still made plenty of money! Unfortunately, that doesnt appear to have happened for any RV manufacturer.

    Had a salesman/dealership owner friend of mine one time tell me, you can make your money on single time sales, or, you can make "more" money on the turns. He was the later... and was the top watercraft dealer in the midwest in the 90's. And did well till he passed, God bless him.

    Reminds me: Feed a man fish and he will eat for a day, teach him how to fish and you feed him for life.
    Last edited by trailrydr; 06-08-2022 at 09:53 AM. Reason: Spelling
    Jim and Annette
    2019 Reflection 150 295RL
    US Army Veteran
    Missouri (AKA Misery)

  5. #5
    Setting Up Camp
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailrydr View Post
    And now GD sales and manufacturing is slowing down according to a forum member who works at a dealership in the know. You think part of their down time will be to address parts, assembly, and QA issues? Or, just focus on pushing the remaining stock that might be comming? Hmmm...

    Me thinks their will be happiness for some that they can start picking up better deals, and others who GD will have to rebuild their QA assurance. If only they would have been the ones to set the example during this last rush... they'd be great at both now and still made plenty of money! Unfortunately, that doesnt appear to have happened for any RV manufacturer.

    Had a salesman/dealership owner friend of mine one time tell me, you can make your money on single time sales, or, you can make "more" money on the turns. He was the later... and was the top watercraft dealer in the midwest in the 90's. And did well till he passed, God bless him.

    Reminds me: Feed a man fish and he will eat for a day, teach him how to fish and you feed him or life.
    Or here's another "It's better to ask for forgiveness than beg for permission"

    Game plan from the begging lip service until sale then let the chips fall
    2022 Ram 3500 Dually Cummins
    2022 Reflection 320 MKS
    My other toy is a Pontoon boat
    Pontoon captain same as a regular captain only drunker ;-)

  6. #6
    Big Traveler dryfly's Avatar
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    @freebird

    Your points are all valid, and you certainly deserved better service. QC is no longer existent!

    As far as the dealer, this also serves as a warning to new buyers to do a complete walk through and testing of the trailer before signing the papers, as it sounds like many of your issues were there from day one. It's amazing how quickly items can be repaired when the sale is on the line. Parts that need to be ordered, or on backorder, can be immediately pulled off another trailer on the lot, and put on your trailer when they want your signature.

    I've got to say, every time I've called Grand Design they have been responsive. I may have had to wait "on hold" for 10 minutes, but they treated me well. Usually they will send replacement parts on a timely basis if you are willing to do the labor.
    2020 Reflection 273MK

  7. #7
    Fireside Member
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    Leta face it, RVs are all junk. Grand Design is just a bit less junky than most.

    Unfortunately whenever a company tries to do things better, they end up going out of business because they can’t compete with the junk. People buy RVs by the foot. “Why would I pay $70,000 for “x” feet I can when I can get “x + 5” for $40,000?“

    It won’t get better until we vote for better quality with our wallets.
    Last edited by Easycamper; 06-08-2022 at 03:36 PM.
    2022 Reflection 150 278BH
    2023 Silverado 2500HD Gas
    “If you like how it tows, don’t change anything.”

  8. #8
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    I've owned three Jayco's and a Winnebago, and rarely had anything aside from minor issues that were all fixed during our walk throughs.

    Our 2019 Grand Design has only had one defect, which was the sliding door track to the bedroom coming loose, arguably not something QC could detect until you hit bad roads and potholes enough to have it come loose.... That's something I fixed myself.

    Granted, the rush to keep up with demand in 2020 and 2021 probably resulted in a lot more defects leaving the factory undiscovered. But... let's not forget those harried assemblers showed up to work instead of collecting unemployment. I'd cut them some slack and place more of the blame on the RV dealers who get paid to do the pre-delivery inspection and punchlist of customer flagged defects...

    Our preferred dealer Burlington RV got bought out by Lazydays last year. There's been a clear drop in attention to detail by the service department and in the service managers since that ownership change. Quite unfortunate.

    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Seasoned Camper 4x4dually's Avatar
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    I too share the frustration of the absolute shoddiness built into these trailers....of ALL brands. We bought a GD recently to get better quality...not sure that happened.

    I heard some words of wisdom here at the office the other day when we had an audit. One of our new quality assurance reps said "You can't inspect quality into a product, it has to be BUILT into a product."

    That rang out to me a very true and seems like something we should all strive to work towards at our jobs. Even though you as well as I know that some of these trailers don't get inspected properly (proven by a brand new trailer having water leaks and issues that would have been caught had they used the water just once) if any amount of care was taken on the assembly floor, most of these issues wouldn't exist.

    That's my $.02
    2021 Reflection 367BHS
    2009 Dodge 3500 4x4 Longbed MegaCab
    Electrical Engineer/Musician/Rancher
    Habbitial facebook jail inmate and soon to be banned from here

  10. #10
    Seasoned Camper
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    Problem 1- The assemblers of most all rv manufacturers are rewarded for speed of assembly…not quality
    Problem 2- People keep buying them.

    As I have said before (and as many other people have said) if consumers continue to buy a product the manufacturers will continue to make the product. This applies to any product not just rvs and it’s is across mutiple brands.
    Last edited by Justa5th; 06-09-2022 at 11:48 AM.
    2013 Ram Cummins 3500
    2019 GD 303RLS-SOLD

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