350 SRW or DRW

[TheLexx]

Nope, I'm talking about the engine screaming at high revs (maybe 3,000-3,500, I don't remember) in fourth gear and the transmission being unwilling to shift to a higher gear, even occasionally lurching back to third gear. Up hill after hill after hill, and that was only the Ozarks (though we did have a pretty good headwind). I'm not saying that it hurt the truck - not worried about that - but it wasn't comfortable and it wasn't fun fueling it back up.

Gotcha. That sounds like a gearing issue. Your higher ratio gearing is forcing the motor to turn more revolutions. The flip side of that is normally your fuel mileage is better. My truck is 4.3 gears and I get 8-10 mpg towing max, more like 8 at best in the big hill areas lol.

[boyscout]

Gotcha. That sounds like a gearing issue. Your higher ratio gearing is forcing the motor to turn more revolutions. The flip side of that is normally your fuel mileage is better. My truck is 4.3 gears and I get 8-10 mpg towing max, more like 8 at best in the big hill areas lol.

Fuel economy was probably the clincher in the dealer salesperson's arguments against buying the 450 that I went in to buy. I expected to do about 75% of driving NOT towing the trailer so that and a less-unwieldly vehicle sounded seductive.

Since Ford doesn't have to publish fuel economy claims for trucks I didn't and don't have a basis for comparison. In the beginning I averaged about 13.5l/100km or about 17.5mpg in moderate temps NOT towing, but 3 1/2 years and 120K km/75K mi later I get more like 15l/100km or 15.5mpg. In wintry weather it falls to about 16.5l/100km or about 14mpg.

When highway towing in moderate temps I get about 24l/100km or about 10mpg on flat terrain. It drops from there in less-flat terrain, with the worst being the long day in the Ozarks at about 34l/100km or about 7mpg.

I don't know how that compares to the 2017 F-450 I went to the dealer to buy. However @Txfivver has upgraded to a late-model ten-speed F-450 and reports an *improvement* in fuel economy. I want to be him.

[powerscol]

Hi, newbie here. I have a 2020 F350 Tremor and trying to figure out if Momentum is an option. Really like the new 395ms but think I might be tipping the scales too much. Thoughts?

One huge issue you will have as the Tremor is lifted, is the bed height and rail clearance. Check the door sticker for capacities and Measure bed height before you buy.

[powerscol]

Fuel economy was probably the clincher in the dealer salesperson's arguments against buying the 450 that I went in to buy. I expected to do about 75% of driving NOT towing the trailer so that and a less-unwieldly vehicle sounded seductive.

Since Ford doesn't have to publish fuel economy claims for trucks I didn't and don't have a basis for comparison. In the beginning I averaged about 13.5l/100km or about 17.5mpg in moderate temps NOT towing, but 3 1/2 years and 120K km/75K mi later I get more like 15l/100km or 15.5mpg. In wintry weather it falls to about 16.5l/100km or about 14mpg.

When highway towing in moderate temps I get about 24l/100km or about 10mpg on flat terrain. It drops from there in less-flat terrain, with the worst being the long day in the Ozarks at about 34l/100km or about 7mpg.

I don't know how that compares to the 2017 F-450 I went to the dealer to buy. However @Txfivver has upgraded to a late-model ten-speed F-450 and reports an *improvement* in fuel economy. I want to be him.

Good morning Mark

As I am in the market for a new truck (don't need, want), So I have been all over Fords 2021 specifications. As I down sized to a 220RK at 9K GVWR I am looking at F350 SRW. However the future may bring a bigger unit as I travel more, so I took a hard look at the 450's folks are talking about. Prob;em is I can get the super-cab - only crew cab. While its Max CCC is 500LB below a comparable F350 DRW I believe it is a paper down graded to stay under the 14,000 lb cap. From what I am reading folks with the new diesel and 10 speed trans are seeing at least a 5 MPG improvement or more solo over the older 6 speed trans and roughly 3 MPG improvement towing.

I think you posted you have 3:31 or 3:55 gears. If it the 3:31 I can see a towing issue of the 6 speed trans hunting and screaming. with your trailer. My 04 6.0 4x4 F350 DRW has 4:10 gearing, but half the power you have and I too needed to run near max RPM on some big hills with my old 12K trailer. Same 6 speed trans hunts too or refuse to down shift. Tow/haul mode helps. On tough grades like the Eisenhower tunnel approach on I70 I manually down shift. My fan would wind up and scream too. You don't say if your truck is a 4x4, but if not an easy solution is have the rear gearing replaced with 3:55, 3:73' 4:10 of 4:30 (all should be available) They would just need to reprogram the computer (easy) I may wait for the New 2022 model as there will probably be some options I want that are on the current new style 2021 150 (12" display screen and 3500watt power supply, new interior) BTW have you ever run and in jection cleaner through you truck. BG makes an excellent one for diesels and it has helped me numerous times. I also carry the Power Service Cetain boosted (silver bottle). It has helped numerous times when I have gotten low grade fuel. The BG has increased my fuel 1 to 3 mpg over time.

You are absolute correct that depending on gearing, trans, and the trailer, that towing experiences can very greatly.

To the OP I got my dually in 03 - lemon lawed that one out and got the 04. I had a Gas F250 HD previously with 3:73 gearing and manual 5 speed I think. It was Ok towing the old 12K trailer. but I got pushed around a lot by wind, and it slowed way down on hills, The dually is a different world in towing. Rock solid in wind. Yes is is lousy in snow unless equipped with studded snow tires and 4x4.

My rule of thumb when advising folks in the SRW/DRW debate is if your towing more than 10K actual weight then go dually. If actual pin weight is near or above 3K then go dually and strongly look at the F450, and anything 14K actual weight and above get an F450.

Just my thoughts

[TheLexx]

My 450 is a 2017 with the 6 speed. I get 12-14 mpg unladen and 8-10 towing our 11k lb GVWR fifth wheel. It drops to about 8 in the hills. From what I can see, the 10 speed guys are getting significantly better gas mileage. Then again, for some reason us California folks seem to always get worse mpg than what folks from the rest of the country are reporting. It may be the special fuel blend that this state requires.

My 450 is not a daily driver so the mpg isn't a big deal for me. We primarily use it just to tow the fifth wheel and for runs to Home Depot and the landscaping supply. I could see how you'd want much better fuel efficiency if you're DDing it.

Fuel economy was probably the clincher in the dealer salesperson's arguments against buying the 450 that I went in to buy. I expected to do about 75% of driving NOT towing the trailer so that and a less-unwieldly vehicle sounded seductive.

Since Ford doesn't have to publish fuel economy claims for trucks I didn't and don't have a basis for comparison. In the beginning I averaged about 13.5l/100km or about 17.5mpg in moderate temps NOT towing, but 3 1/2 years and 120K km/75K mi later I get more like 15l/100km or 15.5mpg. In wintry weather it falls to about 16.5l/100km or about 14mpg.

When highway towing in moderate temps I get about 24l/100km or about 10mpg on flat terrain. It drops from there in less-flat terrain, with the worst being the long day in the Ozarks at about 34l/100km or about 7mpg.

I don't know how that compares to the 2017 F-450 I went to the dealer to buy. However @Txfivver has upgraded to a late-model ten-speed F-450 and reports an *improvement* in fuel economy. I want to be him.

[TheLexx]

Kind of a different topic but I've seen posts from guys with 450's carrying Host Mammoth truck campers. Those things are in the mid-6k lbs range! Monster truck campers. And they're carrying these monsters which are clearly over the yellow sticker payload. They say that the rear axle is rated for 9900 lbs by Ford, and that Dana actually rates the axle for 17k lbs. The tires are rated for 12k lbs. So far no one has had an accident or reported any strange handling behavior while carrying one of these monster truck campers. So who knows. Ford probably did de-rate this truck on paper to conform to the Class III light body truck requirements. For sure it's a more capable truck than the 350.

Good morning Mark

As I am in the market for a new truck (don't need, want), So I have been all over Fords 2021 specifications. As I down sized to a 220RK at 9K GVWR I am looking at F350 SRW. However the future may bring a bigger unit as I travel more, so I took a hard look at the 450's folks are talking about. Prob;em is I can get the super-cab - only crew cab. While its Max CCC is 500LB below a comparable F350 DRW I believe it is a paper down graded to stay under the 14,000 lb cap. From what I am reading folks with the new diesel and 10 speed trans are seeing at least a 5 MPG improvement or more solo over the older 6 speed trans and roughly 3 MPG improvement towing.

[Txfivver]

My 450 is a 2017 with the 6 speed. I get 12-14 mpg unladen and 8-10 towing our 11k lb GVWR fifth wheel. It drops to about 8 in the hills. From what I can see, the 10 speed guys are getting significantly better gas mileage. Then again, for some reason us California folks seem to always get worse mpg than what folks from the rest of the country are reporting. It may be the special fuel blend that this state requires.

My 450 is not a daily driver so the mpg isn't a big deal for me. We primarily use it just to tow the fifth wheel and for runs to Home Depot and the landscaping supply. I could see how you'd want much better fuel efficiency if you're DDing it.

I can vouch for the fuel mileage increase. My '19 F350 DRW got 8-9.5 towing my trailer and never got over 14 mpg on the highway running empty at 70. The 450 gets 9.5-10.5 towing and as you can see 18-19 running empty. Even with the lower gears the 10 speed makes a big difference but I think the new engine tune helps. The 450 turns about 300 more rpm's at 70 than the 350. I'm happy!
This was when brand new on a trip to Port Aransas without the trailer.

[boyscout]

Good morning Mark

As I am in the market for a new truck (don't need, want), So I have been all over Fords 2021 specifications. As I down sized to a 220RK at 9K GVWR I am looking at F350 SRW. However the future may bring a bigger unit as I travel more, so I took a hard look at the 450's folks are talking about. Prob;em is I can get the super-cab - only crew cab. While its Max CCC is 500LB below a comparable F350 DRW I believe it is a paper down graded to stay under the 14,000 lb cap. From what I am reading folks with the new diesel and 10 speed trans are seeing at least a 5 MPG improvement or more solo over the older 6 speed trans and roughly 3 MPG improvement towing.

I think you posted you have 3:31 or 3:55 gears. If it the 3:31 I can see a towing issue of the 6 speed trans hunting and screaming. with your trailer. My 04 6.0 4x4 F350 DRW has 4:10 gearing, but half the power you have and I too needed to run near max RPM on some big hills with my old 12K trailer. Same 6 speed trans hunts too or refuse to down shift. Tow/haul mode helps. On tough grades like the Eisenhower tunnel approach on I70 I manually down shift. My fan would wind up and scream too. You don't say if your truck is a 4x4, but if not an easy solution is have the rear gearing replaced with 3:55, 3:73' 4:10 of 4:30 (all should be available) They would just need to reprogram the computer (easy) I may wait for the New 2022 model as there will probably be some options I want that are on the current new style 2021 150 (12" display screen and 3500watt power supply, new interior) BTW have you ever run and in jection cleaner through you truck. BG makes an excellent one for diesels and it has helped me numerous times. I also carry the Power Service Cetain boosted (silver bottle). It has helped numerous times when I have gotten low grade fuel. The BG has increased my fuel 1 to 3 mpg over time.

You are absolute correct that depending on gearing, trans, and the trailer, that towing experiences can very greatly.

To the OP I got my dually in 03 - lemon lawed that one out and got the 04. I had a Gas F250 HD previously with 3:73 gearing and manual 5 speed I think. It was Ok towing the old 12K trailer. but I got pushed around a lot by wind, and it slowed way down on hills, The dually is a different world in towing. Rock solid in wind. Yes is is lousy in snow unless equipped with studded snow tires and 4x4.

My rule of thumb when advising folks in the SRW/DRW debate is if your towing more than 10K actual weight then go dually. If actual pin weight is near or above 3K then go dually and strongly look at the F450, and anything 14K actual weight and above get an F450. Just my thoughts

Thanks for taking the time. A few bullets in response.

- re: the 450 being "down graded", someone here recently addressed that in detail, sorry, not sure where it was, but yes, the 450 is built with components that make it *significantly* more capable than it is rated for. Ford gives it a lower GVWR so that owners pay less for licensing and insurance and don't have to pull into every weigh station.

- re: gearing and up- down-shifting yes, mine is a 4X4 so it's less simple to change out the too-high axle gearing.

- I've used a single dose of "injection cleaner" because someone gave it to me. I've been thinking about using it again to see if I can get back some of the small reduction in fuel economy that I've experienced. Thanks for the nudge. I'll look for the cetane booster too... why do fuel stations have to post octane levels for gasoline but they don't have to post cetane levels for diesel?!

- I wish I'd spent time getting advice from towing-experienced people before I went to buy my truck. I went to get the 450 - ready for anything and made for towing - but was too easily talked into a lesser truck by a salesman who wanted to earn my trust by "saving" me a few thousand dollars. Now I know he didn't do me a favor.