2020 Grand Design Solitude

[2150michael]

Read to the end, surprising finish! Grand Design was very adamant that it was impossible for their product to be the problem! Our first problem started First of August 2020. Final resolution was first of November. No sorry for the inconvenience from Grand Design!

Here's some correspondence with Grand Design warranty department.

Electrical Issues
Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 8:19 AM

Good Morning,

This is what I know…

Yesterday, Thursday, 9/24, I spoke with both the service manager and the service technician with Grand Design. Both were well aware of the issues we are having as the service technician is the person dealing with Nichols RV in Eustis. They both said this is not an RV issue; it is a surge issue as an RV doesn’t generate its own electricity and would not cause the damage it has done. When all 110-volt appliances are damaged, it is a surge.

The independent electrician had already told me the same thing when I had him check the RV on 9/22. On his bill, he commented “the surge protector needs to be checked out, but seems to be working at this time,” which tells me that even though all the surge protectors we tried on Wednesday, 9/23, were not giving any error messages, it does not necessarily mean they were working properly. In fact, I’m not sure if the two surge protectors Louie provided even had read-outs so how would we know other than the “on” light?

I have had intermittent, random power bumps throughout the summer. They were short and insignificant—only an inconvenience for resetting the clocks. Each time I checked with others in the park to ask if they had similar experiences. They had not. The first significant event happened 8/10 with an actual outage. I can verify that date with Nichols RV. Since then I called Nichols RV two more times in August with two more significant events. All were random, all were inadequately explained, and none occurred during identical weather patterns.

Another event occurred sometime while I was in Washington State. When I left, the air conditioners, washer, and central vac were not working. When I got home two weeks later, the refrigerator had also lost power as well as the little beverage cooler that held some of Michael’s refrigeration-required medication. Within the first few days of returning, the air conditioners and beverage cooler regained power. How? I don’t know since I have not seen anyone from Nichols RV since I’ve returned.

Yesterday, while doing my research, I also spoke with two electrical engineers in
Washington, whom I worked closely with during my 35-year career as a Maintenance Analyst with The Boeing Company. They also agreed it was unlikely the issues came from the rig itself. Two of the error codes I got on the surge protector in mid-August were “open ground” and “reverse polarity” which, they said, is most likely a wiring problem within the park.

If we turn this into the insurance company, they will subrogate and go after both Duke
Energy and the park as they have already paid a claim in early 2019 for the same issue on the same site with the same power source. Insurance companies are in business to collect premiums, not pay out losses, so they will go to great lengths to recoup their loss. By the way, in case you didn’t know, before Michael retired, he had a 35-year career in his own insurance business, which dealt primarily with commercial clients. I only state this because he knows the likely outcome of the insurance company’s response.

Even though I was almost convinced on Wednesday that the rig was the problem, after speaking to the electrician, Grand Design, two electrical engineers and re-reading my notes from Duke Energy, I am now very skeptical that it is. I know other people in the park have had random issues. I know Kim and Jim Swan were reimbursed by Duke Energy. We all know the park has old, obsolete, and according to the electrician, uninsurable equipment if the same equipment was used on residential property. We were told at the very first Meet and Greet that Haines Creek RV had serious electrical issues. We, obviously, knew that already because of our first event. I know that even though neither the surge protectors nor the pedestals we watched on Wednesday recorded a failure, it doesn’t mean there isn’t one waiting to happen.

There were two things I found rather profound in my investigation. One - Grand Design firmly stands by their product. The GD Solitude is one of the highest rated luxury 5th-wheel RVs currently being manufactured. I researched their forums and found nothing to indicate electrical issues. The service manager told me to retain an attorney as he has experienced problems with campgrounds, RV parks, and inadequate electrical systems. Two – when I called Duke Energy to request a voltage ticket, I was also given the phone number for their Claims Department ((855) 398-2370). Who does that? Do they have so many complaints that they automatically offer the services of the Claims Department? When the tech from Duke Energy responded to the ticket last Friday, 9/18, he spent about five minutes checking the pedestal with his meter and declared everything was okay. He was gone within twenty minutes. Fine. What happened five days later?

As of Wednesday, I’ve moved out. I will not be in residence until this is resolved, however, I can be there if needed. Nichols RV is in constant contact with Grand Design and is doing everything they can to repair the appliances and get things going, but when will this catastrophe happen again? They are putting together a timeline and estimate of repairs, including the cost of the independent electrician. I can’t even fathom a guess as to what it will be.

In God We Trust,

Joy Martinez, (206) 948-5561



Michael M
Attachments
Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 11:53 PM
to John, Matthew, Joy

Matthew and John,

Here are all the invoices for the extensive repairs on our Grand Design Solitude.

We were able to save $500 on the Samsung refrigerator by buying a store demo. It was either that or wait until mid-December, and even that was not guaranteed. Because we've been without a refrigerator since early August and Grand Design didn't step up and ship us a new one, we had no choice. I purchased it at Lowe’s Hardware and am sending you my on-line invoice for $1,086.86.

I am sending you a receipt for the first go around of damages on August 10, 2020. That bill was $989.06.

Nine days later we had a bigger failure! In talking with the electrical engineers, it seems my wife was lucky she didn't burn up in a fire this failure could have caused! All 50 amps went through all the 110-volt appliances, a/c units, and heat pump with nothing but the entire RV serving as a ground. This latest bill is $ 3,883.40. Nichols RV has been very understanding for the past 74 days! I have paid them in full.... I will be expecting a phone call Monday to let me know how soon I will be reimbursed.

We purchased a Grand Design RV because of the positive reviews and the seemingly great quality put into these rigs. But I would like to take this opportunity to show you just a small portion of what we've gone through before this last catastrophic event.

We purchased our RV in February 2020 from LazyDays RV in Tampa, Florida. They had us sign our paperwork before we did our walk-through. First thing I noticed was the washer/dryer door did not close. The door opening was 3/8th of an inch smaller than the door! The door jamb was clearly bowed in the center. Their suggestion was to leave the rig with them, and they would order a door. Unfortunately, we had traveled 1.5 hours to pick up our new RV! We had three dogs with us and nowhere to stay while waiting for a new door to be ordered and come in. I was thoroughly disgusted with the dealer. Their workman installed the upgraded Splendide washer/dryer days earlier and absolutely could not have missed that the door wouldn't close! Several weeks went by and I never heard from LazyDays regarding the laundry room door. I finally called the service department and was told they knew nothing about a door problem and if it was a problem with fit, I'd have to bring the RV in and leave it with their cabinet shop. I again explained that we were snowbirds here in Florida and we had nowhere to stay with our three dogs while LazyDays fixed the problem. The main concern we had when shopping for a new RV was service. LazyDays assured us that they had service techs everywhere so we would never have an issue with repairs. I finally called Grand Design directly and a few days later LazyDays set an appointment for a mobile RV repair shop to come to us. Meanwhile, I looked at the problem with the door. The door was not warped as the LazyDays service tech said. Instead, the problem was that both door jambs were bowed inward. I've sent you pictures of the fit. But the mobile RV repair people showed up and decided we needed a new door. They said they would report back to LazyDays and get one ordered. I made the decision to fix it myself. I called LazyDays and told them to forget the door. They were wasting my time and Grand Design’s reputation was going down the drain fast.

I went to Home Depot and bought a power planer, removed the door jambs and planed 3/16" off both sides. The door now fits like it is supposed to! I did attempt to get reimbursed through LazyDays, but they said forget it. I tried to reason with them, since I had saved them another service call, and assured them a new door wasn't going to solve the problem!

One more disgusting item I'd like to tell you about. The entry door was hard to shut right from the beginning. From the inside, you'd have to use both hands; one to hold the latch open and the other to pull it shut. During our walk-through, we were told all entry doors were hard to close and had to be broken in. By the way, this is our sixth RV over many years, so this is not our first rodeo. A tech used some lube and a hammer. By the time he was done, the catch was bent and still closed very hard. The RV mobile service outfit who tried to give me a new laundry room door did the same thing. He used a hammer and lube! What a shame that on an $85,000 RV, I now have three screw holes in the entry door jamb. Come to find out, the catch was installed upside down and backwards! Because the catch was installed backwards the striker plate taper was on the wrong side for the latch to work properly. And it was put upside down so the dead bolt would work. Nine months later, it still doesn’t work properly, and no, we have not learned to live with it.

Considering the Grand Design Solitude is a highly rated luxury 5th-wheel RV, we are not sure we could recommend it to others. Please change our opinion.

I still need an inverter?? That has not been included in the invoices. Again, if you could send one it would certainly help out. We have no idea how long it will be before one becomes available through Nichols RV.

I ordered a hot water heater element today. Thought after all that's gone on I should check it. I turned off the gas, and we have no hot water! I will not pay Nichols RV for another service call... I can install it myself. Amazon Prime, $36 it will be here Wednesday.

Thank you.

M

After all this our RV tech from Nichols RV said he was coming out and taking apart everything on the Solitude starting from the main power cord connection. I can't figure out how to add pictures to this post so I'll try to explain it. When the tech removed the male connector on the rv, he found the main ground wire burnt and disconnected! At assembly someone didn't tighten the set screw so the white ground wire fell out. This left only the secondary ground (copper wire) for ground. Which meant all electrical appliances,A/C units, inverter, anything on 110 volts was being improperly grounded! Had to go to Lowes for a new Samsung refrigerator. AFter sending the picture of the connection to Grand FDesign they finally decided the problem was on their product! We did finally get reimbursed for all expenses incurred. Although I am being quite patient as my inverter is just now scheduled to be installed.

A few things to add, Our Jensen stereo system/DVD player took a dump, jensen did send us a new one, it didn't last 30 days! TV quit a month later, we chose to replace it with a Samsung and a Bose sound system and blu ray player. And finally, oven quit working and stove won't stay lit on low, "Furrion". Unfortunately no one makes an oven or stove to fit these openings. Grand Design has changed to insignia appliances, I asked the warranty department if I could purchase the newer style and never heard back... Had to order new from Furrion, Out of warranty!!!

[Saldog]

Model: Grand Design Solitude 380fl

This narrative is to serve as documentary evidence of our (Darrin and Amy Odell) experience purchasing and taking out for the first time, a Grand Design Solitude 380fl 5th wheel travel trailer. This is meant to act as documentation for insurance, federal agencies, current and prospective Grand Design consumers.

On Monday, June 7th, 2021, we picked up our new Solitude trailer from Mike Thompson RV in Colton, CA. We were given a 30-minute walkthrough of our new trailer, with demonstrations on how to operate all electric and mechanical features, provided with some advice and best practices and then we were off. We drove the trailer back to our bed and breakfast business in Big Bear City, CA, about a 60-mile, one hour drive. Taking the trailer back home was a piece of cake – it handled nicely on the road and our truck was able to pull it safely. We were excited new owners.
We parked the trailer in the driveway of our bed and breakfast. We purchased the trailer as overflow accommodations for our business and also for family and friends get away weekends. The trailer remained parked there for the next 3 weeks as we stocked it up with supplies, learned how to use the slide outs, etc. On Sunday, June 27th, we headed out on our first trip to Lake Elsinore, CA. Again, the trip was easy – about 80 miles and two hours with traffic. We arrived about 9 PM, backed the trailer into our space for our 3-night mini vacation. This is where the “fun” begins.

After placing the trailer exactly where we wanted it, we disconnected it from the hitch and unplugged the 7-pin electrical socket on our truck. We pulled our truck forward and then returned to the trailer to start the leveling sequence on our automated hydraulic system. That is when we noticed small wisps of smoke coming from the hitch housing on the trailer. We were immediately alarmed and started looking for the source of the smoke. We started opening compartments on the front-side of the trailer (both left and right) and immediately noticed smoke coming from both sides. Eventually, we noticed flame in the propane compartment on the right side of the trailer, though it seemed to be up high and deeper in the structure of the trailer. We emptied a full extinguisher into the compartment, but the fire was still evident. We then opened the front electrical/hydraulic compartment and flames poured out, prompting us to empty a second extinguisher into that compartment. This seemed to put out the flames, though there was still a significant amount of smoke.

The Lake Elsinore fire department arrived about 8-10 minutes later and they immediately went to work assessing the situation. They used heat monitors to evaluate the amount of heat coming from the trailer and over the course of 30 minutes or so, were able to determine that the fire had been fully extinguished. They did a full inspection of all compartments and the inside of the trailer (which was full of smoke) to ensure there was no further danger. By this time, it was 10:30 PM, we were exhausted, frustrated and instructed that it was not safe for us to stay in the trailer as the hydraulic system had failed and was leaking. We left the trailer at the RV resort and drove 2 hours back home to Big Bear.

On Monday, June 28th, we called Mike Thomson RV’s service center and explained what happened. We were immediately met with skepticism and made to feel as though this was a huge hassle for them. How lovely from a service department where I had just spent over $100,000 on a brand-new trailer. It wasn’t until Friday, July 2nd, that the trailer was picked up and towed back to Mike Thompson RV in Colton, CA. We were told that Mike Thompson would not touch the trailer until Grand Design was able to send out an inspector to determine the cause of the fire. We attempted to stop by to retrieve some personal items and were able to grab a few things, but full access to the trailer still has not been provided.

On Monday June 28th, we also called Grand Design customer service, however, after waiting on hold for 20 minutes with no answer, we resorted to sending an email detailing the events of the fire. On Wednesday June 30th, we received a call from Morgan at Grand Design and was told that we were going to be taken care of and that an inspector had been scheduled to go through the trailer, but that could not be taken care of until after the July 4th holiday. This is the time when we moved forward in opening a claim with our insurance company, even though Grand Design assured us that we would be taken care of.

The inspector finally came out on the morning of July 8th. On July 9th, I checked in with Morgan at Grand Design via email, as I had not heard any news. I was told that the inspectors report would not be shared with me or with Mike Thompson RV and that the inspector was on his way back to company HQ where they would discuss his/her findings. Finally, on Friday July 16th, I received the following communication from Morgan at Grand Design:
“…Our inspection from 7/12/2021 determined that the 7-way cord had been pulled from its fixed position. While connected to your tow vehicle, the 7-way pulled away from your unit allowing the Romex wiring to chafe, causing a short and allowing the event that you experienced to occur. The inspector found no defect present in our product causing this event to occur. We would recommend filing a claim with your insurance company. Your insurance company may choose to subrogate against Grand Design RV based on their own findings.”

We are amazed at this finding and Grand Design’s stance on the issue. Not only is this factually inaccurate, it seems to state that Grand Design holds no responsibility for the trailer catching fire. We, Darrin and Amy Odell, were both present and both took part in disconnecting the power cord correctly from our truck. It seems this “chafe” they describe could have occurred at any point in time, maybe even before our ownership of the trailer, as there is not damage to the cord itself and no damage to the 7-pin connection on our truck. Further, the design of the trailer allows for this to happen – apply too much force to the electrical cord and the unit catches fire.

We are now taking action through our insurance company, and we are also in the process of hiring an attorney who can represent us in a Lemon Law suit against Grand Design. This information is being provided to the NTSB, the Consumer Product Protection Commission, the State of California’s Attorney General’s office and as many user groups and press outlets who will accept our story. If you are an owner of a Grand Design Trailer or are thinking about buying one, please do your research carefully. You are not buying a quality product, nor are you dealing with a company that stands by the quality of it’s products.

I would encourage you to contact the Lake Elsinore Ford Department that responded to your RV fire incident. The Fire Department can provide a copy of the incident report along with any other information. It is possible they had a Fire Investigator document their conclusion on this incident; the Fire Investigators report will be very detailed containing photographs, and other documentation. The Fire Investigator also may have access to data bases that may contain similar incidents to the one you experienced. This level of information may not be initially released unless requested by your insurance company or attorney depending on the circumstances.

Sorry to hear of your experience, glad everyone is all right and you were not sleeping in the unit when the fire took place.


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