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  1. #21
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarPoweredRV View Post
    The original post was referring more to installing individual batteries into your RV versus using Buss Bars to build a battery from individual cells like you pictured. When building a battery from cells there are definitely different considerations (expansion for example) for using Buss Bars.
    I know, that's why I referenced batteries or cells. But wouldn't it kind of be the same if you are using buss bars to tie batteries together.....you still don't want to put strain on the battery terminals....so you make sure that the batteries all move together or not at all.
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  2. #22
    Site Sponsor SolarPoweredRV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrated View Post
    I know, that's why I referenced batteries or cells. But wouldn't it kind of be the same if you are using buss bars to tie batteries together.....you still don't want to put strain on the battery terminals....so you make sure that the batteries all move together or not at all.
    Now I understand your posting.

    What I am referring to when I am talking about a "Buss Bar" installation is using cables from each battery to a common "Buss Bar" for both the positive and negative battery terminals. If you watch the video linked above, you will see an example of tying multiple batteries to a buss bar using cables and then running the load from the Buss Bar. Additionally, near the end of the video the presenter discusses the disadvantages of tying all the batteries together with a single metal Buss Bar (like what you are thinking).

    I am sorry that my post was not more clear when I referred to a "Buss Bar" installation.

    Perhaps I should have included a picture of the type of Buss Bar I was referring to:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks for pointing out my erroneous assumption.

    Sorry for any confusion.
    Last edited by SolarPoweredRV; 08-13-2022 at 02:01 PM.
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  3. #23
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCR GD View Post
    I'll start my comments by saying my cables may be under-sized (#4 welding type cable) but I don't have an inverter so it shouldn't matter much since they are all bigger than the OEM cables that connect the converter and batteries to the camper.

    When I switched over to Lithium I went with 4 LifeBlue batteries (they have built in BlueTooth so each battery can be monitored individually) and put 2 on each side of the generator in the front compartment. I wired them using the bus bar method. 2 Batteries had 6Ft. cables and the other 2 had about 2-1/2Ft. cables.

    After a couple of trips boondocking for 3-5 days each I kept finding the batteries at different SOC levels (80, 79, 65, 64 as an example.) I thought that was odd because I would have thought they would equalize as they discharged. (I should also note I had solar suitcase providing charge to bus bars.)

    When I got back home, and on shore power, the batteries would charge but they would individually shut down as they reached full charge while the others continued to charge. This was probably fine but had to be confusing to the converter/charger (for Lithium batteries) which would eventually go into float mode when all were charged. (Although a few times I noticed it switching to float before 1 or 2 were fully charged.) This is probably a symptom of undersized wires and different distances to the bus bars.

    I realized if I had gone the "system monitoring" route instead of the "individually monitored" route I would probably not even know this was happening.

    Since I didn't like this happening, I switch all wiring back to series as I had had on my 4 lead acid batteries. Now, as you may have guessed, they all have the same SOC levels and charge at the same rate.

    All this to say, in my real world use, the bus bar method was not the best way to go. If you can not individually monitor each battery, you will probably never know the difference.
    Using a bus bar does NOT change the fact that all cables from the batteries need to be the same length
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  4. #24
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolarPoweredRV View Post
    Now I understand your posting.

    What I am referring to when I am talking about a "Buss Bar" installation is using cables from each battery to a common "Buss Bar" for both the positive and negative battery terminals. If you watch the video linked above, you will see an example of tying multiple batteries to a buss bar using cables and then running the load from the Buss Bar. Additionally, near the end of the video the presenter discusses the disadvantages of tying all the batteries together with a single metal Buss Bar (like what you are thinking).

    I am sorry that my post was not more clear when I referred to a "Buss Bar" installation.

    Perhaps I should have included a picture of the type of Buss Bar I was referring to:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	81yMvCyIUXL._AC_SL1500_.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	83.5 KB 
ID:	42492

    Thanks for pointing out my erroneous assumption.

    Sorry for any confusion.
    OK, I didn't watch the video. I used buss bars on the cell inter-connection points....Pos to Neg to Pos to Neg and so on. I also used Buss Bars to terminal the leads off of the battery and the shunt...

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  5. #25
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    For what the loads we are running, it really is not that important to keep the cables the same length. If you are are constantly running 200-300A, yes, I suspect that would be important. But who here is running those loads?

    There is theory and then there is practicality. If you got 600ah of batteries because you want the capacity to keep your lights on for few weeks, you do not need large cables and exact size lengths. If you are planning on running both A/C's for a couple hours, yes, I suspect you want larger cables and the same length too. The occasional microwave run time will not effect the battery voltages that much and if it does, you got a compromised battery.

    Before you jump on anyone's band wagon, think about what is best for your desires.

    I am in the buss bar camp with large/short run cables. I want to know I do not have to 'upgrade' if I elect to change in the future.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntindog View Post
    Using a bus bar does NOT change the fact that all cables from the batteries need to be the same length
    If you don't mind, please define length. Reason I ask is, When I installed my system (2 Lion batteries) my run to the bus bars ended up being about a six or so inches different in length. I didn't worry about it because the wiring is 2O full copper small strands high quality stuff. I figured with one at about six feet and the other at about five and a half feet wouldn't matter because of the size of the wires I used. Would I be correct in this assumption?
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  7. #27
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobinICT View Post
    If you don't mind, please define length. Reason I ask is, When I installed my system (2 Lion batteries) my run to the bus bars ended up being about a six or so inches different in length. I didn't worry about it because the wiring is 2O full copper small strands high quality stuff. I figured with one at about six feet and the other at about five and a half feet wouldn't matter because of the size of the wires I used. Would I be correct in this assumption?
    For all intents and purpose, yes, you would be correct. A good crimp on the wires/cables, a lightly sanded lug, a clean/polished battery terminal, etc....would be more important than 6" of 2/0 cable and the minute amount of resistance that it might add.
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  8. #28
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobinICT View Post
    If you don't mind, please define length. Reason I ask is, When I installed my system (2 Lion batteries) my run to the bus bars ended up being about a six or so inches different in length. I didn't worry about it because the wiring is 2O full copper small strands high quality stuff. I figured with one at about six feet and the other at about five and a half feet wouldn't matter because of the size of the wires I used. Would I be correct in this assumption?
    Depends on if you care about it being perfectly balanced or not.
    I have not done the math on your situation, so I do not know the impact. I think it will be small, but it is not zero.
    I disagree about the size of the loads being a determining factor as to the benefit of balancing. Even light unbalanced loads will work some batteries harder than others, on the discharge.... And that is only half of the issue. That imbalance is also in effect during charging, which will likely be higher. Yes it is only a 6 inch differnece. But it would have been easy to make it zero when doing the install.
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  9. #29
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    @huntindog

    So what you are saying if you have 6 100ah battery's and hooked them up and only took a 1A current on one end would cause enough of a load issue that it would cause you to have a tough time sleeping?

    The differences of the battery voltages would even out when the loads are gone/diminished to almost gone. Low/intermittent currents would not effect the batteries so much that it would cause serious issues. Larger/continuous loads certainly would.

    As I believe I mentioned before, I am in the buss bar camp but I would not throw stones at someone that purchased batteries for longer run time vs running higher loads and ran them on one end of the battery bank. Maybe not ideal, but not the end of the world either.

  10. #30
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
    @huntindog

    So what you are saying if you have 6 100ah battery's and hooked them up and only took a 1A current on one end would cause enough of a load issue that it would cause you to have a tough time sleeping?

    The differences of the battery voltages would even out when the loads are gone/diminished to almost gone. Low/intermittent currents would not effect the batteries so much that it would cause serious issues. Larger/continuous loads certainly would.

    As I believe I mentioned before, I am in the buss bar camp but I would not throw stones at someone that purchased batteries for longer run time vs running higher loads and ran them on one end of the battery bank. Maybe not ideal, but not the end of the world either.
    I have about 8K into my batteries. For the little $$, time, and effort to have them perfectly balanced, does make me sleep better.
    As always, Your money, your choice
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