Heat Loss Signature 260RD

[RPAspey]

Be sure to keep an eye on temps in the belly if you rely much on the electric heater in freezing temps. When the furnace doesn't run, there's no heat going into the belly where the water lines are. Some will say it doesn't make a difference. But I can say from experience that if you have frozen pipes, you can run the furnace and wait a bit and you'll likely have flowing water again. That's for temps in the 20's anyway. Ours froze while in transit, then thawed once we parked and turned the furnace on.

Dead on accurate. We camped in the high single digits in our 337. We used the fireplace and a ceramic heater for base heating and the furnace set at 65 assist the electric heat. Every morning the kitchen water was frozen. We turned the furnace up to 72 and within 45 minutes all was well again until the next morning.

[goducks14]

The 150 series only has 1" thick foam walls vs the standard 1.5" thick foam walls.
Slide floors are only 3/4" plywood or there abouts which only have an R value of about 1. Single pane widows have hardly any R value as well. It all adds up to an RV thats hard to keep warm or hard to keep cool.

[Soundsailor]

Be sure to keep an eye on temps in the belly if you rely much on the electric heater in freezing temps. When the furnace doesn't run, there's no heat going into the belly where the water lines are. Some will say it doesn't make a difference. But I can say from experience that if you have frozen pipes, you can run the furnace and wait a bit and you'll likely have flowing water again. That's for temps in the 20's anyway. Ours froze while in transit, then thawed once we parked and turned the furnace on.

Yes, the electric heater won't heat the belly. One option for that, if you want to stay electric, is a bilge heater (see https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F996452). The bilge heater only comes on when needed and keeps the belly above freezing. Pretty easy to install, and draws 700 watts so it could be run with the cabin heater without overloading your connection.

Just a note on my experience with the 260RD on a recent trip. We had several nights in the low 30s and everything was fine (the furnace was set to 63 degrees and came on four or five times per night). On our last night, the temps dipped into the mid-20s. Nothing froze. I used a temperature gun to look at what temperatures were present in different parts of the coach. First I checked the stairs which were at 28 degrees as expected. Then I checked the outside of the front compartment (I have lithium batteries in there which can be damaged by charging them when they are below 32 degrees). The outside of the front compartment was at 33 degrees. When I scanned the batteries inside the front compartment, they were at 47 degrees even though the furnace does not have any outlet in that compartment. I think it would be different if the temps were low throughout the day, on our trip the highs were about 60 so the coach would have been warm to start the evening.

[ajg617]

When we purchased our rig I thought the electric fireplace was kind of a gimmick. Experience is that it is very quiet and pretty much keeps the RV warm enough for sleeping when the outside temp is in the 50s. Colder than that, the furnace runs a bit but with the fireplace burning, not that much until outdoor temps drop into the 30s.

This ^^^
I thought the same thing about the fireplace. Spent 80 days on the road this year and we used that for heat more than anything else. Heat pump makes up difference down to about 37F for us. Furnace over heats the upper bedroom while very cold in the rear of the slides and sofa.

[wannabervin]

"Arctic Package" is a marketing gimmick. You can look at the Reflection 150 Series construction page here:

https://www.granddesignrv.com/showro...s/construction

They focus on insulation but don't say anything about single pane windows, gaps around slide seals, etc. In our previous Reflection, I replaced the "reflective foil" insulation on top of the Coroplast underbelly and put foam pipe insulation on the water lines to the kitchen so they wouldn't freeze. It also helped to make some snakes out of tube socks and cotton batting to stuff around the bottom corners of the slides (a place where it's hard to get a good seal and cold wind would blow in). You just have to figure out the little tricks that help with your particular rig.

Rob

It’s always puzzled me why dual payne windows don’t come as part of the artic package. Everyone knows their value, for heat, cool, and sound insulation, as well as reducing condensation in cold weather. We special ordered ours

[ajg617]

It also helped to make some snakes out of tube socks and cotton batting to stuff around the bottom corners of the slides (a place where it's hard to get a good seal and cold wind would blow in). You just have to figure out the little tricks that help with your particular rig.

Rob

Rob,
I ordered a thermal detector today. But I think you have had both single and dual pane? Have you noticed a temp retention difference or still the same trouble spots? I can't quantify reduction in heat loss since I haven't had the SP to compare to. I will say we have spent a number of nights in low 30s and the DP windows on the ends of the slide outs were so cold we relied on the shades for insulation. Interestingly, there were no Insulated Window stickers on the smaller end windows that would be inside when slides are retracted - both bed and dinette. The large slide out windows were noticeably warmer to the touch and did have the stickers.
Thanks,
John

[Second Chance]

Rob,
I ordered a thermal detector today. But I think you have had both single and dual pane? Have you noticed a temp retention difference or still the same trouble spots? I can't quantify reduction in heat loss since I haven't had the SP to compare to. I will say we have spent a number of nights in low 30s and the DP windows on the ends of the slide outs were so cold we relied on the shades for insulation. Interestingly, there were no Insulated Window stickers on the smaller end windows that would be inside when slides are retracted - both bed and dinette. The large slide out windows were noticeably warmer to the touch and did have the stickers.
Thanks,
John

John,

It's difficult to compare our with and without situations since the without was a Reflection fifth wheel and the with is a Solitude. The Solitude is better insulated - especially the underbelly - and the slide seals are different. There is a remarkable difference in the comfort and LP consumption between the two rigs but, again, more factors figure in than just the dual pane windows. We certainly don't have condensation issues in the Solitude and that's due to the windows. The main places we have felt heat loss (or cold incursion) are the ceiling vents and the small window in the door. We use insulated vent cushions in the ceiling vents and I cut a piece of Reflectix to fit in the door window (we don't like a window there, anyway). We've spent two winters in the Solitude so far with lower teens both winters. I have a total of four 30 lb. LP tanks so I can take two or three at a time to get filled and always have plenty on hand. Here on the upper Chesapeake we use a fairly large dehumidifier when the ACs aren't running (relative humidity is 89% outside right now). I dumped a little over a gallon out of it this morning when we got up. The dehumidifier is for comfort... I don't like sticking to myself.

Can you tell if there is a space between two panes on those slide end windows when you look at the surrounding gasket? I can see the air gap in ours.

Rob

[ajg617]

I dumped a little over a gallon our of it this morning when we got up. The dehumidifier is for comfort... I don't like sticking to myself.

Can you tell if there is a space between two panes on those slide end windows when you look at the surrounding gasket? I can see the air gap in ours.

Rob

Rob,
Thanks for the response and understood - two different models.

There appears to be a space on all windows but a quick hand check says there is a big difference in inside temp feel between the larger windows (warmer with stickers) and the end windows on the slide outs (colder and no stickers). Windows without the insulation stickers are definitely much colder to the touch. I'm going to kick the heat on and measure but of course temps are climbing to 70s this weekend. Once it lowers, I'll take some readings.

Interesting on the dehumidifier. I was going to put in a humidifier as the air is very dry with heat on as the heat pump really dehumidifies a lot.
Thanks,
John

[Steven@147]

I suppose you could call it "What did you do to your rig today" but we finished shrink wrapping the vertical windows just the other day. Use a 3M product brand. The horizontal sliding windows don't seem to be as bad leaking cold air. Ours are single pane and the smaller vertical windows leak cold air terribly. There really is no adequate felt seal in the track for the glass.
Then as @Second Chance suggest we have some of those door draft dodgers and place them on the floor up against the slide gap. Also use those pillows up in the skylights and exhaust fans. It all seems to really make a difference. We do use a small dehumidifier and when cooking have an exhaust fan running to cut down on moisture.