Tesla CyberTruck: How Battery Day Totally Changed What We Know About Electric Pickups

[TheLexx]

If this is inappropriate for this thread then please remove the post. I test drove a Tesla today with the family. We're thinking of a replacement for my wife's Honda Odyssey. The Tesla is definitely the future. The instantaneous acceleration, the giant screen - all the tech is the wave of the future. BUT the build quality was horrible. I saw big mismatched body panel gaps. Interior trim was nowhere near installed correctly with some pieces that were obviously not even fitted properly. I happened to speak to another customer there who owned a Tesla. This person told me about the horrible service - how it was a month to months long wait for parts, phone calls are never returned much less answered, service department totally sucks, all sorts of defects in the vehicle, etc. This was confirmed in all the Yelp, Google, and Tesla forum reviews I've read.

IMO this relates to the Cybertruck and the RV community because if there's one thing that frustrates the RV community, it's the lack of quality that seems to run across most of the RV brands. We bought a Grand Design because customer service is supposedly superior to their competitors.

If you're out camping with a Cybertruck and there's a problem that renders it unsafe to drive, Tesla will not offer you a loaner. They now give you Uber credits to get around while your vehicle sits at their lot waiting (oftentimes weeks) for them to get to it or for them to get the parts (oftentimes at least a month wait). My perception is that Tesla is pumping out the cars in order to meet or beat predictions of the stock analysts. In their quest or outright production numbers, customer service and after the sale sale service have gone to hell.

Like most folks, we're busy people. I don't have the time to run back and forth to the dealer all the time for repairs. I certainly don't have the patience to deal with poor customer service. Maybe Tesla will eventually sort out their customer service issues. If they do, I would definitely be interested in purchasing one of their vehicles. However at this time, based on the testimony of MANY of their customers, I refuse to throw my money away on a potential headache like this.

[Overtaxed]

RE: Service on Teslas. I've heard 2 things. They don't break often or need service much. Owners love that. I've also heard that if they do break, good luck. Long waits for parts and lack of skills to install those parts and get it back to "factory new". I've not heard much in the "build quality" department, but, as I think you point out, much like RV's, the demand for these them is high, profit margins are high, and that often turns into "build quality suffers". Doesn't surprise me, but, then again, Ford isn't building perfect stuff either, so..

Maybe with the pickup segment for both RVs and light commercial stuff you’ll get a battery exchange. Cylindrical batteries that slide into the vehicle or a box lifted in with a forklift.

Both of the ideas your propose are the ways to get there for long haul trucking/RV'ing (well, not trailer exchanges for RVs, but battery swap outs). Or, as another poster proposed, huge batteries or generators at "gas stations" to help them keep up with the demand. In fact, that might be medium term answer, you'll see a huge diesel generator off in the corner of the truck stop, using the diesel tanks already in the ground, to create the power to fast charge these things. That would be a relatively inexpensive way to do it. Or, if as another poster proposed, we get enormous battery capacities, you could "trickle" the charge into those batteries from the grid, then fast charge it out to semis coming in for a fuel up. Reasonable ways to deal with it until the grid can catch up with the substation level demands a busy truck stop would have to fast charge lots of semi batteries.

For semis, with less than time sensitive freight, I think the "load the trailer with batteries" idea is a pretty good one. Put enough on the truck so it run empty for a reasonable distance, then put a lot in the semi box that hook up to the truck and recharge it. When the semi box is dead, drop it off somewhere for slow charging and pick up another one. That's a pretty good idea, but it's still a ways out there (and sadly, won't help RV'ers). Maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't see, even in the next 20-30 years, the majority of long RV trips being done sans diesel fuel; I firmly believe a diesel electric vehicle is the right answer for this application, and maybe we'll see one of them eventually, but, without that, I just don't see us dealing with the logistics in the medium term in any meaningful way.

[WhittleBurner]

For any of those that do have these cars do not work on anything electrical on them. Mechanics have lost their lives from working on them. They can be very dangerous even just working on the batteries.

[TheLexx]

RE: Service on Teslas. I've heard 2 things. They don't break often or need service much. Owners love that. I've also heard that if they do break, good luck. Long waits for parts and lack of skills to install those parts and get it back to "factory new". I've not heard much in the "build quality" department, but, as I think you point out, much like RV's, the demand for these them is high, profit margins are high, and that often turns into "build quality suffers". Doesn't surprise me, but, then again, Ford isn't building perfect stuff either, so..

We were very serious about buying a Tesla until we test drove the thing. As I stated earlier, the fit and finish were atrocious. Even something as simple as trying to adjust the seats was a major chore because the manual controls are very stiff and the seats do not move easily. Closing the frunk was an exasperating experience. You have to really push hard to get it to click shut, but the sheet metal of the hood flexes a LOT when you do so, causing me to think that I could easily dent the thing.

Then I read online from many posters that the rated range is BS. Tesla says you shouldn't charge the battery to 100% or let it drop to more than 20% charge. Violating those guidelines means the batteries will lose their ability to hold a full charge over time. Some folks report even after following their guidelines, after 12 months their batteries lost 6% of charging capacity. So on a vehicle with 351 miles range, charging under those guidelines would yield about 260 miles of true range. When you drive in cold weather, the range drops another 30%. Use the air condition or heater? It's electric so that also impacts range. Drive faster than 65? That also has a big impact on range.

Another issue is driveline shudder. Apparently Tesla has a half-shaft problem. Folks are reporting that Tesla does not want to fix the problem, has no real fix, and when they actually do replace the half-shafts, they fail again within a few thousand miles. It's the design that needs to be changed. There are problems with the big screen yellowing over time. A number of folks report their MCU computer fails. Tesla service tries to reboot, hack, and otherwise delay replacing the unit until you're out of warranty. Then it's on your dime.

After reading all of this from the Tesla forums, I was kind of skeptical that so many folks were complaining about the horrible service, the long wait for parts, and the inability to even get someone to answer the phone at Tesla service. Then right after our test drive, I happened to speak to a customer who was dropping her Tesla for service. She told me the horror stories about her car, how it's been in the shop so many times yet they're still not able or willing to fix the thing. She told me how Tesla customer service is "take it or leave it" and how once you've bought the car, they really don't give two hoots about you as a customer. Mind you these are the same type of comments we read online.

So at this point, there's no way I would buy a Tesla product. They need to prioritize their customer service departments instead of just pushing out cars from the factories to support stock analyst predictions. My wife's comment was that she needs a reliable vehicle. She doesn't have time for an unreliable vehicle, nor does she have the patience for bad customer service.

We went to BMW and looked at the X7. Beautiful vehicle. Double paned glass all around, and an interior that truly feels luxurious. It has a full 3 rows. Yes it uses quite a bit of gas, but considering the Tesla costs more to insure, no longer offers free supercharging, and would require me to spend a bunch of money to modify our electrical panel to install their home charger, I doubt I'd be saving much if anything by going electric.

I really want to like the Tesla. I hope Elon realizes that he needs to greatly improve their customer service and makes improvements so that Tesla is no longer the 2nd worst vehicle in terms of reliability according to JD Powers.

[[email protected]]

Yesterday, Tesla held their, long awaited, Battery Day...

During the presentation, Elon Musk and Drew Baglino outlined the future of batteries for Tesla Vehicles. In addition to being 56% cheaper to manufacture, Tesla's new battery cells will be 5 times more powerful and store 6 times more energy then the current battery cells Tesla is using in their Model 3 and Y.

In their presentation Tesla indicated that the CyberTruck and Semi will be built with their new, more powerful, battery cells.

How will these new Tesla Cells (FYI: the new cells will be called 4680) have a positive effect on Towing an RV with a Tesla CyberTruck?

What Range improvement might we expect from the new cells being used in the CyberTruck?

How will the new cells effect charging times while on the road?

Let's discuss this...

First, I would like to thank Rivian for publishing the first, official, estimate of range reduction while towing a loaded trailer with an Electric Pickup, that range reduction is ~ 50%, even while climbing some very steep hills in the Arizona heat (over 100 F).

Read about Rivian's Testing and watch a Video here: https://www.greencarreports.com/news...scorching-heat

Tesla's CyberTruck will have more than 14,000 LBs of towing capacity and 500 miles of range when they begin producing them at the end of next year (maybe 1Q 2022), unfortunately, the CyberTruck will not be capable of towing a 5th Wheel RV, however, for those who have chosen a Travel Trailer, you are in for a treat!

The new Batteries that Tesla announced for the CyberTruck will benefit RV users greatly; and positively address many concerns people have voiced on this forum and others (mostly about Range and Charging times).

Personally, I predict that the new CyberTruck will have a longer range than previously published because of the new battery cells, I predict that the Long-Range, Tri-Motor, version of the CyberTruck will have a range closer to 600 miles when Tesla begins producing them in volume (2022).

Because the new Tesla battery is so advanced, the CyberTruck will have plenty of power to haul the RV, at speed, even uphill. One of the biggest advantages of this new battery, is that it does not get as hot as current batteries do, so, you won't have an over-heating issue, even while climbing a long hill.

Additionally, because this new battery generates less internal heat, it can be charged much faster, and at a higher rate, than the existing battery packs on the Model 3 (or Model Y). The batteries should also be capable of accepting the higher charging rate for a longer period of time, so, the charging rate will begin curtailing itself later in the charging cycle which will give you a higher state-of-charge, sooner.

Many of the Electrify America's charging stations and Tesla's v3 Super chargers are capable of charge rates up to 350kwh which equates to receiving over 1,000 miles of charge in an hour. The CyberTruck will probably be capable of charging at a rate of 300kwh which will probably result in a 10% to 80% (plus) charge of around 30 minutes, just enough time to fix lunch and get everyone through the comfort station (at least once).

With the CyberTruck's Long-Range of 500 miles (or more) and the new information provided by Rivian, you could expect to travel over 200 miles before needing to stop for a recharge of around 30 minutes. This range and recharge time compare favorably with your existing Gas or Diesel fueling times (it takes a while to fill my 48 gallon tank, so a 5 minute fill-up is not realistic).

Bottom line: The new Battery from Tesla will make the CyberTruck much more capable and will eliminate even more excuses for not "Going Electric" from the Fossil-Fuel Loving Truck enthusiasts.

This is obviously a fluff article for the batteries. When I pull into a truck stop towing a 35' trailer I don't go to the gasoline pumps I go where the trucks fill up. I can top off all 90 gallons in about 6 or 7 minutes. And that will give me a range of about 400 plus miles while towing. So waiting 30 minutes to get an 80% charge every few hours of towing is ridiculous. And how many of the Tesla rapid charging stations has anybody ever seen can accommodate a truck towing a 30 or 35' trailer. They're usually tucked away in some corner of a very busy parking lot.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[PTParker]

Yesterday, Tesla held their, long awaited, Battery Day...

During the presentation, Elon Musk and Drew Baglino outlined the future of batteries for Tesla Vehicles. In addition to being 56% cheaper to manufacture, Tesla's new battery cells will be 5 times more powerful and store 6 times more energy then the current battery cells Tesla is using in their Model 3 and Y.

In their presentation Tesla indicated that the CyberTruck and Semi will be built with their new, more powerful, battery cells.

How will these new Tesla Cells (FYI: the new cells will be called 4680) have a positive effect on Towing an RV with a Tesla CyberTruck?

What Range improvement might we expect from the new cells being used in the CyberTruck?

How will the new cells effect charging times while on the road?

Let's discuss this...

First, I would like to thank Rivian for publishing the first, official, estimate of range reduction while towing a loaded trailer with an Electric Pickup, that range reduction is ~ 50%, even while climbing some very steep hills in the Arizona heat (over 100 F).

Read about Rivian's Testing and watch a Video here: https://www.greencarreports.com/news...scorching-heat

Tesla's CyberTruck will have more than 14,000 LBs of towing capacity and 500 miles of range when they begin producing them at the end of next year (maybe 1Q 2022), unfortunately, the CyberTruck will not be capable of towing a 5th Wheel RV, however, for those who have chosen a Travel Trailer, you are in for a treat!

The new Batteries that Tesla announced for the CyberTruck will benefit RV users greatly; and positively address many concerns people have voiced on this forum and others (mostly about Range and Charging times).

Personally, I predict that the new CyberTruck will have a longer range than previously published because of the new battery cells, I predict that the Long-Range, Tri-Motor, version of the CyberTruck will have a range closer to 600 miles when Tesla begins producing them in volume (2022).

Because the new Tesla battery is so advanced, the CyberTruck will have plenty of power to haul the RV, at speed, even uphill. One of the biggest advantages of this new battery, is that it does not get as hot as current batteries do, so, you won't have an over-heating issue, even while climbing a long hill.

Additionally, because this new battery generates less internal heat, it can be charged much faster, and at a higher rate, than the existing battery packs on the Model 3 (or Model Y). The batteries should also be capable of accepting the higher charging rate for a longer period of time, so, the charging rate will begin curtailing itself later in the charging cycle which will give you a higher state-of-charge, sooner.

Many of the Electrify America's charging stations and Tesla's v3 Super chargers are capable of charge rates up to 350kwh which equates to receiving over 1,000 miles of charge in an hour. The CyberTruck will probably be capable of charging at a rate of 300kwh which will probably result in a 10% to 80% (plus) charge of around 30 minutes, just enough time to fix lunch and get everyone through the comfort station (at least once).

With the CyberTruck's Long-Range of 500 miles (or more) and the new information provided by Rivian, you could expect to travel over 200 miles before needing to stop for a recharge of around 30 minutes. This range and recharge time compare favorably with your existing Gas or Diesel fueling times (it takes a while to fill my 48 gallon tank, so a 5 minute fill-up is not realistic).

Bottom line: The new Battery from Tesla will make the CyberTruck much more capable and will eliminate even more excuses for not "Going Electric" from the Fossil-Fuel Loving Truck enthusiasts.

One thing that has always concerned me about the battery vehicles is the energy stored! The danger of lithium batteries has always been the safety factor of that much stored energy. Even with the small flashlight batteries, it has been an on going problem with explosions and fires! They come with a long list of warnings and I have personally known several people that have been injured by flashlight batteries and phone batteries! Now you tell us, they are substantially increasing the power stored in the batteries! Tesla has already had many, many fires from these batteries! At some point it is going to be like sitting on a powder keg! Also, when the enviromentalist get hold of it, they will be marching in the streets! The strip mining of lithium alone will send them into orbit! They already have to send all the lead out of the country and have it shipped back in and pay a fine because it is hazardous material? Go figure, something Obama did? This is one reason ammo is so expensive now!

[Overtaxed]

The danger of lithium batteries has always been the safety factor of that much stored energy.

Tank of gasoline has plenty of energy in it too. I'm a little worried about the batteries, but I think it's probably overstated in my mind.

I'm a little scared of the wattage required to fast charge something like a 1MW battery though. That kind of electric is something that almost nobody has any experience with (who doesn't work on commercial electric anyway). That's the kind of current that, should something go wrong, well.. At least you won't suffer. The power coming into your house at home (200A, 220) is ~45KW. The plug you'll use on a Tesla semi is ~1000KW. 20X as much power, and I sweat when messing around in the breaker panel at home, 200A will kill you dead real quick. 1000KW.. Phew, that's "smoking crater" kind of power. And it's going to have to be very high voltage to not require stupid sized wire to carry the current. To get to 1MW/hr, probably something like 10,000V at 100A; that'll keep you to a wire only a little bit heavier than the 50A cord you use to plug in your RV. Going much lower on the voltage, you'll need even bigger wire. 2GA wire is good for 125A or so, but a 3 conductor 2GA wire is a heavy mother.

[Overtaxed]

Many of the Electrify America's charging stations and Tesla's v3 Super chargers are capable of charge rates up to 350kwh which equates to receiving over 1,000 miles of charge in an hour. The CyberTruck will probably be capable of charging at a rate of 300kwh which will probably result in a 10% to 80% (plus) charge of around 30 minutes, just enough time to fix lunch and get everyone through the comfort station (at least once).

With the CyberTruck's Long-Range of 500 miles (or more) and the new information provided by Rivian, you could expect to travel over 200 miles before needing to stop for a recharge of around 30 minutes. This range and recharge time compare favorably with your existing Gas or Diesel fueling times (it takes a while to fill my 48 gallon tank, so a 5 minute fill-up is not realistic).

1000 miles for a car, perhaps. 350KW for an hour is NOT even close to 1000 miles towing an RV. It's somewhere between 1-2KW'/m when towing an RV. 300 miles per hour would be VERY optimistic on a 350KW/h charger, probably more like 200-250/hr.

If you could hook up a larger 5er to the Cybertruck with the biggest battery available, I'd be SHOCKED if you get beyond 200 miles from 100% to dead empty. If you want "real towing numbers" on an EV, look at the semi, that's about the energy it takes from diesel to tow (comparing a modern diesel pickup to a diesel semi, they consume close to the same amount of fuel per mile), so it's reasonable that we'd wind up with a similar situation with electric tow vehicles.

And none of this mentions or talks about the issue of getting this much power to a "gas station" to fill up. That's a whole different (but also difficult) problem to solve. We don't just need to replace every diesel pump with EV chargers, we need a lot more EV chargers than diesel pumps because it's a lot slower to "fill up" from even a megacharger compared to a diesel pump.

[PTParker]

We were very serious about buying a Tesla until we test drove the thing. As I stated earlier, the fit and finish were atrocious. Even something as simple as trying to adjust the seats was a major chore because the manual controls are very stiff and the seats do not move easily. Closing the frunk was an exasperating experience. You have to really push hard to get it to click shut, but the sheet metal of the hood flexes a LOT when you do so, causing me to think that I could easily dent the thing.

Then I read online from many posters that the rated range is BS. Tesla says you shouldn't charge the battery to 100% or let it drop to more than 20% charge. Violating those guidelines means the batteries will lose their ability to hold a full charge over time. Some folks report even after following their guidelines, after 12 months their batteries lost 6% of charging capacity. So on a vehicle with 351 miles range, charging under those guidelines would yield about 260 miles of true range. When you drive in cold weather, the range drops another 30%. Use the air condition or heater? It's electric so that also impacts range. Drive faster than 65? That also has a big impact on range.

Another issue is driveline shudder. Apparently Tesla has a half-shaft problem. Folks are reporting that Tesla does not want to fix the problem, has no real fix, and when they actually do replace the half-shafts, they fail again within a few thousand miles. It's the design that needs to be changed. There are problems with the big screen yellowing over time. A number of folks report their MCU computer fails. Tesla service tries to reboot, hack, and otherwise delay replacing the unit until you're out of warranty. Then it's on your dime.

After reading all of this from the Tesla forums, I was kind of skeptical that so many folks were complaining about the horrible service, the long wait for parts, and the inability to even get someone to answer the phone at Tesla service. Then right after our test drive, I happened to speak to a customer who was dropping her Tesla for service. She told me the horror stories about her car, how it's been in the shop so many times yet they're still not able or willing to fix the thing. She told me how Tesla customer service is "take it or leave it" and how once you've bought the car, they really don't give two hoots about you as a customer. Mind you these are the same type of comments we read online.

So at this point, there's no way I would buy a Tesla product. They need to prioritize their customer service departments instead of just pushing out cars from the factories to support stock analyst predictions. My wife's comment was that she needs a reliable vehicle. She doesn't have time for an unreliable vehicle, nor does she have the patience for bad customer service.

We went to BMW and looked at the X7. Beautiful vehicle. Double paned glass all around, and an interior that truly feels luxurious. It has a full 3 rows. Yes it uses quite a bit of gas, but considering the Tesla costs more to insure, no longer offers free supercharging, and would require me to spend a bunch of money to modify our electrical panel to install their home charger, I doubt I'd be saving much if anything by going electric.

I really want to like the Tesla. I hope Elon realizes that he needs to greatly improve their customer service and makes improvements so that Tesla is no longer the 2nd worst vehicle in terms of reliability according to JD Powers.

The half shaft issue is an easy fix, I built them for General Motors for years. They have half shaft for heavy trucks that run for hundreds of thousands of miles. The other stuff, not so much! At some point the investors will get tired of putting money down a dry hole! Tesla has been in business for almost 20 years and has not come close to making a profit! They have lost Billions!

[PTParker]

Tank of gasoline has plenty of energy in it too. I'm a little worried about the batteries, but I think it's probably overstated in my mind.

I'm a little scared of the wattage required to fast charge something like a 1MW battery though. That kind of electric is something that almost nobody has any experience with (who doesn't work on commercial electric anyway). That's the kind of current that, should something go wrong, well.. At least you won't suffer. The power coming into your house at home (200A, 220) is ~45KW. The plug you'll use on a Tesla semi is ~1000KW. 20X as much power, and I sweat when messing around in the breaker panel at home, 200A will kill you dead real quick. 1000KW.. Phew, that's "smoking crater" kind of power. And it's going to have to be very high voltage to not require stupid sized wire to carry the current. To get to 1MW/hr, probably something like 10,000V at 100A; that'll keep you to a wire only a little bit heavier than the 50A cord you use to plug in your RV. Going much lower on the voltage, you'll need even bigger wire. 2GA wire is good for 125A or so, but a 3 conductor 2GA wire is a heavy mother.

Gas does have plenty of energy, but has proven rather safe over the years because they shield it and seldom have a problem unless in a bad crash. Electricity has proven dangerous in a Tesla! Many, Many fires with the chance of explosion!