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10-03-2020, 05:36 PM #51
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If this is inappropriate for this thread then please remove the post. I test drove a Tesla today with the family. We're thinking of a replacement for my wife's Honda Odyssey. The Tesla is definitely the future. The instantaneous acceleration, the giant screen - all the tech is the wave of the future. BUT the build quality was horrible. I saw big mismatched body panel gaps. Interior trim was nowhere near installed correctly with some pieces that were obviously not even fitted properly. I happened to speak to another customer there who owned a Tesla. This person told me about the horrible service - how it was a month to months long wait for parts, phone calls are never returned much less answered, service department totally sucks, all sorts of defects in the vehicle, etc. This was confirmed in all the Yelp, Google, and Tesla forum reviews I've read.
IMO this relates to the Cybertruck and the RV community because if there's one thing that frustrates the RV community, it's the lack of quality that seems to run across most of the RV brands. We bought a Grand Design because customer service is supposedly superior to their competitors.
If you're out camping with a Cybertruck and there's a problem that renders it unsafe to drive, Tesla will not offer you a loaner. They now give you Uber credits to get around while your vehicle sits at their lot waiting (oftentimes weeks) for them to get to it or for them to get the parts (oftentimes at least a month wait). My perception is that Tesla is pumping out the cars in order to meet or beat predictions of the stock analysts. In their quest or outright production numbers, customer service and after the sale sale service have gone to hell.
Like most folks, we're busy people. I don't have the time to run back and forth to the dealer all the time for repairs. I certainly don't have the patience to deal with poor customer service. Maybe Tesla will eventually sort out their customer service issues. If they do, I would definitely be interested in purchasing one of their vehicles. However at this time, based on the testimony of MANY of their customers, I refuse to throw my money away on a potential headache like this.2017 Ford F450 - our kids call her "Big Red"
2018 Grand Design Reflection 28bh
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10-04-2020, 06:14 AM #52
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RE: Service on Teslas. I've heard 2 things. They don't break often or need service much. Owners love that. I've also heard that if they do break, good luck. Long waits for parts and lack of skills to install those parts and get it back to "factory new". I've not heard much in the "build quality" department, but, as I think you point out, much like RV's, the demand for these them is high, profit margins are high, and that often turns into "build quality suffers". Doesn't surprise me, but, then again, Ford isn't building perfect stuff either, so..
Maybe with the pickup segment for both RVs and light commercial stuff you’ll get a battery exchange. Cylindrical batteries that slide into the vehicle or a box lifted in with a forklift.
For semis, with less than time sensitive freight, I think the "load the trailer with batteries" idea is a pretty good one. Put enough on the truck so it run empty for a reasonable distance, then put a lot in the semi box that hook up to the truck and recharge it. When the semi box is dead, drop it off somewhere for slow charging and pick up another one. That's a pretty good idea, but it's still a ways out there (and sadly, won't help RV'ers). Maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't see, even in the next 20-30 years, the majority of long RV trips being done sans diesel fuel; I firmly believe a diesel electric vehicle is the right answer for this application, and maybe we'll see one of them eventually, but, without that, I just don't see us dealing with the logistics in the medium term in any meaningful way.
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10-04-2020, 08:33 AM #53
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For any of those that do have these cars do not work on anything electrical on them. Mechanics have lost their lives from working on them. They can be very dangerous even just working on the batteries.
Marcy & Gary
2014 Grand Design - Reflection 303RLS
2022 GMC 3500 Denali Duramax Longbed SRW
2015 GMC Denali 3500 - Retired
2003 F350 - retired
Michigan
We're in trouble now, the dog are bloggin'!
https://3dogsandatrailer.wordpress.com/
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10-04-2020, 01:59 PM #54
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We were very serious about buying a Tesla until we test drove the thing. As I stated earlier, the fit and finish were atrocious. Even something as simple as trying to adjust the seats was a major chore because the manual controls are very stiff and the seats do not move easily. Closing the frunk was an exasperating experience. You have to really push hard to get it to click shut, but the sheet metal of the hood flexes a LOT when you do so, causing me to think that I could easily dent the thing.
Then I read online from many posters that the rated range is BS. Tesla says you shouldn't charge the battery to 100% or let it drop to more than 20% charge. Violating those guidelines means the batteries will lose their ability to hold a full charge over time. Some folks report even after following their guidelines, after 12 months their batteries lost 6% of charging capacity. So on a vehicle with 351 miles range, charging under those guidelines would yield about 260 miles of true range. When you drive in cold weather, the range drops another 30%. Use the air condition or heater? It's electric so that also impacts range. Drive faster than 65? That also has a big impact on range.
Another issue is driveline shudder. Apparently Tesla has a half-shaft problem. Folks are reporting that Tesla does not want to fix the problem, has no real fix, and when they actually do replace the half-shafts, they fail again within a few thousand miles. It's the design that needs to be changed. There are problems with the big screen yellowing over time. A number of folks report their MCU computer fails. Tesla service tries to reboot, hack, and otherwise delay replacing the unit until you're out of warranty. Then it's on your dime.
After reading all of this from the Tesla forums, I was kind of skeptical that so many folks were complaining about the horrible service, the long wait for parts, and the inability to even get someone to answer the phone at Tesla service. Then right after our test drive, I happened to speak to a customer who was dropping her Tesla for service. She told me the horror stories about her car, how it's been in the shop so many times yet they're still not able or willing to fix the thing. She told me how Tesla customer service is "take it or leave it" and how once you've bought the car, they really don't give two hoots about you as a customer. Mind you these are the same type of comments we read online.
So at this point, there's no way I would buy a Tesla product. They need to prioritize their customer service departments instead of just pushing out cars from the factories to support stock analyst predictions. My wife's comment was that she needs a reliable vehicle. She doesn't have time for an unreliable vehicle, nor does she have the patience for bad customer service.
We went to BMW and looked at the X7. Beautiful vehicle. Double paned glass all around, and an interior that truly feels luxurious. It has a full 3 rows. Yes it uses quite a bit of gas, but considering the Tesla costs more to insure, no longer offers free supercharging, and would require me to spend a bunch of money to modify our electrical panel to install their home charger, I doubt I'd be saving much if anything by going electric.
I really want to like the Tesla. I hope Elon realizes that he needs to greatly improve their customer service and makes improvements so that Tesla is no longer the 2nd worst vehicle in terms of reliability according to JD Powers.2017 Ford F450 - our kids call her "Big Red"
2018 Grand Design Reflection 28bh
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10-04-2020, 03:02 PM #55
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This is obviously a fluff article for the batteries. When I pull into a truck stop towing a 35' trailer I don't go to the gasoline pumps I go where the trucks fill up. I can top off all 90 gallons in about 6 or 7 minutes. And that will give me a range of about 400 plus miles while towing. So waiting 30 minutes to get an 80% charge every few hours of towing is ridiculous. And how many of the Tesla rapid charging stations has anybody ever seen can accommodate a truck towing a 30 or 35' trailer. They're usually tucked away in some corner of a very busy parking lot.
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10-05-2020, 05:00 PM #56
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One thing that has always concerned me about the battery vehicles is the energy stored! The danger of lithium batteries has always been the safety factor of that much stored energy. Even with the small flashlight batteries, it has been an on going problem with explosions and fires! They come with a long list of warnings and I have personally known several people that have been injured by flashlight batteries and phone batteries! Now you tell us, they are substantially increasing the power stored in the batteries! Tesla has already had many, many fires from these batteries! At some point it is going to be like sitting on a powder keg! Also, when the enviromentalist get hold of it, they will be marching in the streets! The strip mining of lithium alone will send them into orbit! They already have to send all the lead out of the country and have it shipped back in and pay a fine because it is hazardous material? Go figure, something Obama did? This is one reason ammo is so expensive now!
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10-05-2020, 05:56 PM #57
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The danger of lithium batteries has always been the safety factor of that much stored energy.
I'm a little scared of the wattage required to fast charge something like a 1MW battery though. That kind of electric is something that almost nobody has any experience with (who doesn't work on commercial electric anyway). That's the kind of current that, should something go wrong, well.. At least you won't suffer. The power coming into your house at home (200A, 220) is ~45KW. The plug you'll use on a Tesla semi is ~1000KW. 20X as much power, and I sweat when messing around in the breaker panel at home, 200A will kill you dead real quick. 1000KW.. Phew, that's "smoking crater" kind of power. And it's going to have to be very high voltage to not require stupid sized wire to carry the current. To get to 1MW/hr, probably something like 10,000V at 100A; that'll keep you to a wire only a little bit heavier than the 50A cord you use to plug in your RV. Going much lower on the voltage, you'll need even bigger wire. 2GA wire is good for 125A or so, but a 3 conductor 2GA wire is a heavy mother.
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10-05-2020, 06:22 PM #58
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Many of the Electrify America's charging stations and Tesla's v3 Super chargers are capable of charge rates up to 350kwh which equates to receiving over 1,000 miles of charge in an hour. The CyberTruck will probably be capable of charging at a rate of 300kwh which will probably result in a 10% to 80% (plus) charge of around 30 minutes, just enough time to fix lunch and get everyone through the comfort station (at least once).
With the CyberTruck's Long-Range of 500 miles (or more) and the new information provided by Rivian, you could expect to travel over 200 miles before needing to stop for a recharge of around 30 minutes. This range and recharge time compare favorably with your existing Gas or Diesel fueling times (it takes a while to fill my 48 gallon tank, so a 5 minute fill-up is not realistic).
If you could hook up a larger 5er to the Cybertruck with the biggest battery available, I'd be SHOCKED if you get beyond 200 miles from 100% to dead empty. If you want "real towing numbers" on an EV, look at the semi, that's about the energy it takes from diesel to tow (comparing a modern diesel pickup to a diesel semi, they consume close to the same amount of fuel per mile), so it's reasonable that we'd wind up with a similar situation with electric tow vehicles.
And none of this mentions or talks about the issue of getting this much power to a "gas station" to fill up. That's a whole different (but also difficult) problem to solve. We don't just need to replace every diesel pump with EV chargers, we need a lot more EV chargers than diesel pumps because it's a lot slower to "fill up" from even a megacharger compared to a diesel pump.
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10-06-2020, 07:46 AM #59
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The half shaft issue is an easy fix, I built them for General Motors for years. They have half shaft for heavy trucks that run for hundreds of thousands of miles. The other stuff, not so much! At some point the investors will get tired of putting money down a dry hole! Tesla has been in business for almost 20 years and has not come close to making a profit! They have lost Billions!
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10-06-2020, 07:49 AM #60
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actual offset of Curt Crosswing
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