Negative Publicity for GD

[johndeerefarmer]

Evidently they will replace 4 yr old ac units and complete flooring. They will also pull and repair slides plus pull roofing back and replace all side panels due to delamination. How you go about getting this kind of service and setting up an appt. at one of their "service centers", while attending one of their rally events, I have no idea. I guess they just randomly select owners to receive this type of "super service".

Contrast that with a conversation I had with customer service about roof caulking. I told the advisor I was seeing gaps develop in the sealant and that the sealant seemed to flow too much when it was applied. He agreed the "flow" issues had been noted before and they are "working on it". I asked if this is considered a maintenance issues and was told yes. Now I don't have a problem keeping up with sealant maintenance and understand that it is required. It is not a big deal, just showing the difference.

This is the problem I see as well- inconsistent service. I feel that I paid at least 10k more for my GD's than a comparable FR unit. The build quality between the two brands is identical and they both use components from the same companies. So why should I pay extra for a GD unit? I would prefer GD to just give everyone a 2 or 3 year bumper to bumper warranty and make no exceptions after that.

[Brewhedd]

This is the problem I see as well- inconsistent service. I feel that I paid at least 10k more for my GD's than a comparable FR unit. The build quality between the two brands is identical and they both use components from the same companies. So why should I pay extra for a GD unit? I would prefer GD to just give everyone a 2 or 3 year bumper to bumper warranty and make no exceptions after that.

Sounds good to me. I liked my Rockwood (better build quality) but I think the GD has some better construction methods. For instance, I believe where things are attached like medicine cabinets and roof ladders there is better backing to secure them. Also, I have yet to find a stripped screw inside in the woodwork. Some things are lesser also, like the frames and welds rusting from day 1. Grand Design interiors do look upgraded but where they give in one area they take away in another, that's business. Just about any manufacturer is slapping them together as fast as they can. A lot of the same problems can be seen in the low end as well as more expensive models. I like my Grand Design floor plan and looks. The only issue I have is there are/were too many problems and costly trips back and forth to the dealer. Just telling the truth, maybe not the popular thing to do here but I think buyers need to realize the potential of problems. GD may not like my rhetoric, if they monitor this site, but I think buyers need to beware of marketing "puffing" from ANYONE claiming to build a better product.

This, I hope, is my last trip to the dealer and was very clear to GD about the costs of trips and that I wanted them to ship any needed parts while my TT is at the dealer. They seemed to agree with doing that. I will post a summary.

[chunker]

Sounds good to me. I liked my Rockwood but I think the GD has some better construction methods. For instance, I believe where things are attached like medicine cabinets and roof ladders there is better backing to secure them. Also, I have yet to find a stripped screw inside in the woodwork. Some things are lesser also, like the roof on my GD gives more than the Rockwood. Grand Design interiors do look upgraded but where they give in one area they take away in another, that's business. Just about any manufacturer is slapping them together as fast as they can. A lot of the same problems can be seen in the low end as well as more expensive models. I like my Grand Design floor plan and looks. The only issue I have is there are/were too many problems and costly trips back and forth to the dealer.

In the fall of 18 we were in the Elkhart area a few days, was actually the week before the big RV show there in the fairgrounds. We went through a couple factory tours, couldn't get the GD one because they were setting up for the show though. We did tour the Newmar plant. Different animal I know but as the coach progressed down the line, before is was moved to the next station, they cleaned up their work area. On the side of each coach was a gig sheet. As the workers would see or find an issue, it would be written down. They moved quickly in their work but would take the time to note irregularities and document them. At the appropriate time, someone appropriate would work off the gig sheet, sign their name and go on.

Now I know some here who are happy accepting sub standard build and total lack of quality control QC and point out that the Newmar is a multi hundred thousand $$$$$ RV. A lot of that cost is the foundation. A 40' Feightliner chassis with 400++ hp Cummins, paired to an Allison 4000 6 speed on a air suspension cost a heck of a lot more than a Lippert frame. The use of real wood in cabinets, won't find pressed board, costs more. Higher end furniture, appliances, and amenities. All stoves are not created equal. All that adds to the cost. Yes having an effective QA and QC makes a unit cost more also. Do they come out "fault free", NO. but the underlying RV is better built with fewer faults.

I saw a youtube video at either a Jayco or Keystone factory where they were bragging how quickly they were shoving these trailers in the entrance about out the completed door. It's been a couple years that I saw it and as I recall about 20 minutes in length. NO where was anyone going behind and inspecting or correcting anything. Work are was filthy and debris everywhere. It's like a stare down game. The companies bet they can stare you down and make it difficult to report anything in the hopes that the 1 year warranty lapses and then you are on your own. Or say, you must contact Lippert, Dometic, Norcold, Furrion, etc, for remedy. Imagine Ford, Range Rover, etc. telling you to contact the radio manufacturer if the radio broke. Unless you have been living under a rock, you are aware of a takata air bag recall. Honda, Toyota, etc are doing the repairs, NOT takata. Major changes needed in the RV industry but as long as the economy booms, and people clamor for poor quality, NOTHING will change.

[bertschb]

... and people clamor for poor quality...

I don't think anybody is asking for poor quality. I would suspect the opposite. Do you know of an RV manufacturer that builds a high quality 5th wheel for under $100,000???? How about $150,000? THAT is the problem! There aren't any. There literally are no high quality 5th wheels for under $150,000. So, if you want a 5th wheel, do you say "well, there are none in my price range so I'm not buying one"? Or, do you bite the bullet like everybody else and buy one knowing you may have to do a few repairs?

We accept poor workmanship because there is no alternative. Simple as that.

The only way something will change is if somebody figures out how to make a high quality RV at a reasonable price. If a builder could do that, they would definitely get some attention and lots of business. But, they would go broke because there is no way they could do it profitably.

[Overtaxed]

We accept poor workmanship because there is no alternative. Simple as that.

The only way something will change is if somebody figures out how to make a high quality RV at a reasonable price. If a builder could do that, they would definitely get some attention and lots of business. But, they would go broke because there is no way they could do it profitably.

Kind of like the American car industry before Honda/Toyota came in and set a "new standard" for what you should expect in a vehicle. I'm sure we'll get there at some point and we'll get better manufacturing, but it's going to take a "Honda" moment, where a company comes in, starts building something head and shoulders above (at a similar price) and then everyone else has to play catch up.

A big part of the problem in RVs is that the industry is so fractured, there have to be 1000's of different models built every year, and that makes it very difficult to get "Honda level" precision, it's expensive to do that and you need to amortize that cost over millions of units, not 1000's. Robotic assembly is extremely expensive to setup, but extremely cheap to run. So if you're building 100 units, it might increase the cost 25X to do it with robots. If you're doing a million units, it might reduce the cost by 1/2 to do it with robots. But you need scale, and lots of it, to get to the kind of processes that they use in autos today (which is a big part of the reason they are so much better than they were 50 years ago).

[chunker]

I don't think anybody is asking for poor quality. I would suspect the opposite. Do you know of an RV manufacturer that builds a high quality 5th wheel for under $100,000???? How about $150,000? THAT is the problem! There aren't any. There literally are no high quality 5th wheels for under $150,000. So, if you want a 5th wheel, do you say "well, there are none in my price range so I'm not buying one"? Or, do you bite the bullet like everybody else and buy one knowing you may have to do a few repairs?

We accept poor workmanship because there is no alternative. Simple as that.

The only way something will change is if somebody figures out how to make a high quality RV at a reasonable price. If a builder could do that, they would definitely get some attention and lots of business. But, they would go broke because there is no way they could do it profitably.

I agree with much of your reply, the clamoring comment was a bit of artistic license but many RVs are sold on early warm spring days with the kids and dogs in tow and fall "in love" with the bling and shiny stuff. If RV manufacturers put as much money into structural engineers as they did for the interiors designers, we would have better built RVs across the industry. But bling and trendy stuff attracts attention and sells. Especially to the newer to the game RVr.

Yes we, me included, accept what is offered but in my case I research carefully and weigh all options. Actually literally weigh since weight is an important factor very often overlooked either by ignorance or by "I don't care about no stinking weight".

I'll editorialize in my last comment on this thread. There is a distinct possibility that in the near future there will be plenty of campsites available and for most trips reservations will no longer be required. The lower quality builder will be gone, out of business, only the strong will survive. If certain candidates take political power the economy will tank, discretionary income will tank, fuel prices skyrocket, fewer people will be able to afford the "luxury" or lifestyle of an RV. IF you have the means that's when you may find that the remaining viable businesses have improved quality some to try to sell something. Possibly the government will establish safety standards similar to the auto industry which will contribute to escalating costs of all RVs. All in the interest of "public good" and power.

Note that I didn't state who will or may take these steps but I'm sure that this comment will get scathing rebuke so I'm outahere now.

[bertschb]

@Overtaxed -

Couldn't have said it better myself (and I didn't!)

[bertschb]

Kind of like the American car industry before Honda/Toyota came in and set a "new standard" for what you should expect in a vehicle.

Absolutely correct. I think the way they were able to do it is they introduced entry level cars that were affordable but had lower labor costs at the time so they were still profitable. I remember my parents bought a new Honda Accord when it was first introduced in America. The quality was far better than domestic cars at the time. Americans could still buy a Cadillac but the entry level cars from Japan were actually better quality. Japan got their foot in the door by building a better quality and more efficient entry level car. There is no way a low volume RV builder can build a high quality entry level RV profitably. As you point out, there just isn't enough volume.

[WhittleBurner]

Please keep politics or political comments out of the conversation, forum rules...no politics

[chunker]

Please keep politics or political comments out of the conversation, forum rules...no politics

You are correct I said political power, should have just said power. I'll edit better in the future and this really is my last comment on this thread. I really really promise.