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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4x4dually View Post
    I use the little brake caliper hones from the automotive stores on the end of a corless drill for things like this.
    That appears to be a good option. Never used one before, but does seem like it would work on the inside surfaces.

    I just need to get the pin from Reese, and I'm not entirely sure they're going to send me one. I can think of any way (without a metal lathe) to clean up what I have well enough, is there some tool that would do the pin side if Reese won't send me one? As I mentioned, I think the mating surface for the pin is pretty good, I'll double check and hone it if necessary, but I'm wondering what to do if Reese says "no" to my request for a new pin.

  2. #32
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    That appears to be a good option. Never used one before, but does seem like it would work on the inside surfaces.

    I just need to get the pin from Reese, and I'm not entirely sure they're going to send me one. I can think of any way (without a metal lathe) to clean up what I have well enough, is there some tool that would do the pin side if Reese won't send me one? As I mentioned, I think the mating surface for the pin is pretty good, I'll double check and hone it if necessary, but I'm wondering what to do if Reese says "no" to my request for a new pin.
    Dimensions are key and then finding a machine shop. Most any real machine shop can work in 4140. They just may not be able to harden it.

    Horizon (Reese) does not make the Goosebox themselves. It and all the repair parts are contract manufactured. Even the safety chains (kid you not as I waited months for a replacement when one hook lost its keeper). Any of the tech support juniors are not very knowledgeable. You have to get elevated to John who is more knowledgeable and helpful. The shaft is probably sized in millimeters.
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

    Mountains of Pennsylvania

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    Dimensions are key and then finding a machine shop. Most any real machine shop can work in 4140. They just may not be able to harden it.
    I have Goosebox that's only 6 months old so this topic is of interest to me so I am following along...

    We machine 4140 all day so yes no problem with that. I can buy 4140 in heat treated form, ground and polished to any specific OD I need, and then we will do grease holes and pin keeper slots etc. As long as we don't touch the OD this saves me from the added cost of heat treating and grinding after machining.

    My thoughts wander to a point of wouldn't we want a pin material "softer" than the steel on the Goosebox? I guess my theory would be yes I want a strong pin but if we don't have sacrificial bushings to replace then we'd want the pin to wear out and not the Goosebox material. I'd much rather put a $50 pin in every few years than buy a new Goosebox because my hardened pin ate through it. Personally I'd be leaning to a 8620 or any of the ETD materials (ETD150, Stressproof, Fatigueproof). These have superb toughness qualities, easy to machine and no heat treat needed.
    2021 RAM 3500 DRW 6.7 HO Cummins
    2021 Solitude 3550BH-R w/factory solar

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoatNerd View Post
    I have Goosebox that's only 6 months old so this topic is of interest to me so I am following along...

    We machine 4140 all day so yes no problem with that. I can buy 4140 in heat treated form, ground and polished to any specific OD I need, and then we will do grease holes and pin keeper slots etc. As long as we don't touch the OD this saves me from the added cost of heat treating and grinding after machining.

    My thoughts wander to a point of wouldn't we want a pin material "softer" than the steel on the Goosebox? I guess my theory would be yes I want a strong pin but if we don't have sacrificial bushings to replace then we'd want the pin to wear out and not the Goosebox material. I'd much rather put a $50 pin in every few years than buy a new Goosebox because my hardened pin ate through it. Personally I'd be leaning to a 8620 or any of the ETD materials (ETD150, Stressproof, Fatigueproof). These have superb toughness qualities, easy to machine and no heat treat needed.
    I would tend to agree, you want the pin to wear out, not the bushings inside the GB. That said, I work on a lot of heavy equipment that uses pins; I'm not sure what the material is, but if properly greased, they simply never wear out. They have some sort of hard chrome finish on them that seems to let them slide easily (think a pin in a backhoe, for example). A few shots of grease, and honestly, the pin and collar they ride on are lifetime parts. Forget to grease them, you'll eventually be looking at a "big bill" to cut/weld a new eye in. But even with 100's of tons of force on them, with some grease, they seem to last forever.

    I think there are two problems on the GB design here. The first is the most critical, no grease in the joint. Any metal to metal joint without grease is going to wear, add in water, and it's going to wear fast. I think that is the fundamental problem. The 2nd issue, if you're determined to not make this a greased joint, the pin has to be chromed to within an inch of it's life. The middle of my pin (where its in free air between the two pivots on either side) was a mess. There is no force there, no metal to metal contact, and it felt like about 40 grit sandpaper with all the pitting/galling. That tells me that the pin material isn't a high chrome steel (or not high enough to prevent rust). That's the 2nd problem, you could probably go a long time without grease in that joint if the pin was hard enough and stainless enough to prevent the galling. But it appears it's a relatively mild steel by how significantly it rusted in <2 years.

  5. #35
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    I would tend to agree, you want the pin to wear out, not the bushings inside the GB. That said, I work on a lot of heavy equipment that uses pins; I'm not sure what the material is, but if properly greased, they simply never wear out. They have some sort of hard chrome finish on them that seems to let them slide easily (think a pin in a backhoe, for example). A few shots of grease, and honestly, the pin and collar they ride on are lifetime parts. Forget to grease them, you'll eventually be looking at a "big bill" to cut/weld a new eye in. But even with 100's of tons of force on them, with some grease, they seem to last forever.

    I think there are two problems on the GB design here. The first is the most critical, no grease in the joint. Any metal to metal joint without grease is going to wear, add in water, and it's going to wear fast. I think that is the fundamental problem. The 2nd issue, if you're determined to not make this a greased joint, the pin has to be chromed to within an inch of it's life. The middle of my pin (where its in free air between the two pivots on either side) was a mess. There is no force there, no metal to metal contact, and it felt like about 40 grit sandpaper with all the pitting/galling. That tells me that the pin material isn't a high chrome steel (or not high enough to prevent rust). That's the 2nd problem, you could probably go a long time without grease in that joint if the pin was hard enough and stainless enough to prevent the galling. But it appears it's a relatively mild steel by how significantly it rusted in <2 years.
    I think, personally, that the design intent was for a non-greaseable. However, somewhere along the line the intent was sacrificed for either cost or lack of quality control... The pin in OT's is definitely not a chromium steel. As for the material choice, the traditional engineering is that pin is always harder than the bearing material. True, this is consideration for wear, but also done to maintain fitment and minimize distortion. In the application we are discussing, if regularly greased, should not be a concern and definitely would not have the circumstance OT is currently dealing with both surfaces chewed up and the joint binding.
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

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  6. #36
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    Quick update, new pin arrived from Reese yesterday. It's a slightly different design; instead of allen bolts on the end, this one has a standard hex cap bolt. Given that this is a part you should be wrenching on regularly (to grease it), I'm MUCH happier with a standard hex bolt, hard to bung the threads and also, if I do round them over time, any hardware store will have a replacement.

    Pin seems to be identical otherwise (it's not a hard chrome, that's for sure).

    My plan is to knock the existing pin 1/2 way out, get a cylinder hone into one side, clean it up as best I can using the hone/round brushes/etc, grease the heck out of it, slide the new pin in 1/2 way, then do the other side. I'll keep the old pin to use as a drift to knock the new one in/out for greasing.

    Given that the new pin is a standard hex bolt, I may do some investigation to see if I can get a "wet" version of that bolt that has a grease passage in it (that empties at the end). Might not be possible to get something like that, but, if I can, I'll change to a wet bolt and see if I can drill a grease passage into each sleeve. Not a high priority because now that I have two pins, it'll be easy to hold alignment while I grease.

    Finally, I did ask Reese for recommendations on greasing interval and type of grease. If they provide any guidance, I'll pass it along here. Unless I hear otherwise, I'm thinking 1-2X a year and using a black/moly grease that's good and tacky.

  7. #37
    Seasoned Camper
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    You may not want to hone the passages. Have you ever heard of Scraping? Scraping is how you get something super flat. For example, the ways of a lathe need to be flat and parallel. They scrape them to get them flat. As the YouTuber will point out, you do not want two pieces of metal that are in contact with each other to be perfectly flat. After they get the surfaces flat, they take another pass to put gouges into the surface. That gives the oil (or grease) someplace to pool.
    https://youtu.be/7QOCE1-fB6Y

    The reason that they hone a cylinder is that they want the rings to seal the cylinder. If they were not honed, you would lose compression.

    Just a thought,
    -B
    Fulltime RVer since 4/2016. Newmar Mountain Aire 4523 - Jeep Rubicon JKU - Harley FLTRU
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  8. #38
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    Well.. That was a complete waste of time. I pulled the old pin, honed the passages (which did get them pretty clean and very smooth compared to what they were when I started. Polished the new pin down to 5000 grit, getting close to a mirror finish and very smooth. Greased everything back up and started to drive the new pin in.. Annnnnddd..

    They sent the wrong pin. This is the pin for a 16K Goosebox, not a 20K. It's about 4in too short.

    I'll add some pictures after a cool down for a few mins.

  9. #39
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    New pin, nice and clean after a good polishing:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Sleeve pre-polish:
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    Sleeve post-polish:
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    Another pre/post:

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  10. #40
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    And finally, what I should have checked before I lost 2 hours of my life:

    Click image for larger version. 

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