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09-25-2020, 06:53 AM #21
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I am just guessing, but I would think that the majority of the campgrounds do not have the infrastructure to allow charging. That would essentially double the
electricity usage per site. Hopefully charging stations could be added easier than upgrading the entire parks.
On a side note, how many states have started charging an excise tax to make up for the lost revenue on the gasoline road tax?~Dean
2019 Ford F250 Supercab, 6.2L
2023 GD Imagine AIM 18BH
2012 Harley FLHRC, Deep Purple,; 2012 Honda PCX150
"Auctioneer, specializing in FL onsite auctions"
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09-25-2020, 07:28 AM #22
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The key to charging an EV with existing infrastructure is to charge the EV at night when electricity usage is low. I would fully expect campgrounds to anticipate EV adoption and begin adding a surcharge if you charge within the campground. I also anticipate some campgrounds to be pro active and install dedicated EV chargers onsite.
As far as loss of fuel tax goes, some states have begun to charge an excise tax to make up for the loss of fuel taxes, unfortunately, some states have decided to make it a Punitive tax to mitigate EV adoption. In all fairness, EV tax rates should be pegged to annual miles driven, but few states are willing to adopt this tax structure. My only hope is that these excise taxes are earmarked for Road Repair like the Gas Taxes are now and not destined for the General Fund where the money will be used for other purposes and Road Repairs will be short changed.David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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09-25-2020, 08:05 AM #23
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- Jan 2015
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- Bend, OR and Palm Springs, CA
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Brian & Kellie
2020 Solitude 310GK-R, FBP, 1,460w solar, 540ah BBGC3, MORryde IS w/disc brakes
2020 F-350 Platinum SRW Powerstroke Tremor, 60g TF fuel tank, Hensley BD3-F air bag hitch
Previous setups:
2019 Solitude 373FB-R, 2019 F-350 Platinum DRW Powerstroke, Hensley BD5 air bag hitch
2016 Reflection 318RST, 2016 GMC 3500 Denali SRW Duramax, Hensley BD3 air bag hitch
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09-25-2020, 03:53 PM #24
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- Sep 2019
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- Minnesota
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I have no doubt technology will get there. One thing that Tesla doesn't report on, in my experience, is the performance of cold batteries. One of my coworkers got a Tesla 2 years ago, and his range in winter is about 60% of summer. I can only imagine that cold + towing is going to take a toll. I will wait a while before jumping on the bandwagon.
Timmer
2020 Grand Design Reflection 312BHTS
2015 Ford F350, 6.2L Gas, Crew Cab
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09-25-2020, 05:02 PM #25
Infrastructure is an issue that must be resolved, no question. Our average daily drives when towing are just about 200 miles (320 km). Longest is close to 300 miles, but that is running too close for comfort with my TV. An EV truck might be fine, given the mountain driving we do, it would get a chance to regen-recharge and save on brakes. I’m always concerned about cold, as noted by @Timmer heat is a must have for much of the year.
BC gets about 90% of our electricity from hydro, which is a good thing. Still, the infrastructure is not in place to charge even 25% of the current “fleet” of vehicles at home. Condo purchasers are demanding charging stations, which in some cases, BC hydro cannot allow as the distribution grid is undersized for potential load.
Last year, before the border closed, we were in Oregon and a couple who checked into the site beside us told us they had to pay metered rate for power as their dinghy was an EV. Makes sense I suppose.
We are building Site C on the Peace River, maybe the plan is to sell power to California?Judy & Larry
Ty and Ali the St Bernard drool machines
Delta, British Columbia, GWN
2019 Imagine 2150RB - lovingly christened “IM-A-GENE” towed by Dusty via Andersen 3350.
2018 F150 SCREW 3.5 EcoBoost Lariat - respectfully christened “Dusty”.
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09-25-2020, 06:12 PM #26
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- Mar 2019
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- Tampa Florida
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I think the big problem with cold weather performance is cabin heating. Most EVs use resistive heating to warm the cabin. Resistive heating uses a lot of energy for the amount of heat produced. Tesla has addressed the inefficiency of resistive heat with their new heat pump technology in the Model Y (rumored to be coming to the Model 3 soon). I suspect that the new Model Y has much better cold weather performance than any other EV built before it.
Hopefully, all other manufacturers will learn from Tesla and include Heat Pump technology in their EV soon.David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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09-25-2020, 07:05 PM #27
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- Dec 2019
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- Gaffney, SC
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A gallon of diesel fuel is, after factoring in losses, somewhere between 10-15KW of power (without losses, it's about 40KWH, even the best diesel engines in vehicles aren't to 50% efficiency yet in extracting the energy from diesel fuel, slow speed diesel engines are a bit above 50%). Now, there is something gained by regen braking in an electric car, but, if you look at 10-15KW per gallon of diesel, you'll have a pretty good idea of where things stand. A 50A circuit, running full bore, is 12,000 watts or 12KW. Conveniently, that gives us a really easy guideline, every hour on a 50A circuit is roughly equivalent to putting 1 gallon of diesel fuel in the tank of your truck. The biggest battery for the Cybertruck is 200KWH, again, sloppy math, but that's basically 20 gallons of diesel fuel, and will take about 20 hours to charge from dead empty to full on a 50A circuit at full draw.
The real thing we should be looking at for towing RV's is the numbers we have on the Tesla semi. Again, rough numbers, but the 1000KWH variant is expected to have about 500 mile range, or 2KWH per mile. Towing an RV would require less, but if you compare our MPG towing with a modern diesel pickup to that of a semi, it's not drastically different. Let's say, for sake of discussion, that towing an RV takes 1/2 the energy that it takes to tow a semi, to get a 500 mile range (towing a big 5er) you'll need a 500KWH battery.
Charging 500KWH on a 50A circuit would take ~5 days. 5 days at the park to get 500 miles or so.
I'm a huge supporter of Tesla, and I also really like EV's, but, simply put, we're not even close yet. In fact, we don't even have line of sight to the tech/infrastructure to make it happen in a reasonable way. Even Superchargers at 150KW still don't get us where we need to be, it will take hours to charge up a battery enough to get back on the road for another few hundred miles. Tesla is working on "megachargers" that will be even faster, and those will certainly change the situation for the better, but, I really don't think that most people are thinking through the power required for this to work. We're talking immense amount of electricity. Electricity, that even if we find a good way to deliver, isn't free. If you figure 10c per KWH, and it take 1KW per mile (double the efficiency of the semi), that would 1 dollar per 10 miles. Depending on the cost of diesel, that could be roughly on par to about 1/2 the cost per mile. Good, for sure, assuming you can get electric cheap and diesel is expensive.
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09-28-2020, 02:01 PM #28
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I'd use the batteries for DC and AC (through an inverter) to power everything but air conditioning. Currently have four Trojan T105s (450 a/h total when new) but would enjoy having much more power to maximize non-generator time, without adding much more weight.
I've heard of people using used Model S batteries. Not sure about cost or availability in Canada. Have you posted anything about your installation and can you provide a link?
Thanks.Mark - 2018 Solitude 310GK - 2017 F-350 diesel SRW short box - Pullrite Superglide hitch
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09-28-2020, 02:31 PM #29
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Being a fanboy of Tesla (despite not owning one), I debated holding out for the cybertruck before we recently purchased a new Chevy 3500 diesel and Reflection 5er. I loved the idea of being able to "fuel" my truck at home every night, have incredible power, make a bold statement on the road, and potentially spend less on the tri-motor than you would on a fully loaded HD truck. But I decided that making this plunge is too soon for me and went ahead and bought the new diesel truck a couple months ago. I wanted a fifth wheel, and also didn't like the lack-of range with the Cybertruck. 90% of our camping trips are less than 150 miles one way, but a couple times a year we make a longer trip over a full week and I didn't like the idea of having to coordinate a charging station at the right distance within the trip, that I could also fit a large trailer in to.
When I'm ready for my next truck purchase 10-15 years from now, this space will be a different ballgame.2021 Reflection 31 MB
2020 Chevy Silverado 3500 High Country SRW w/ Duramax
Reese Goosebox 16k
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09-28-2020, 03:36 PM #30
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Cybertruck can't ever tow a fifth wheel with those rising bedrails and lack of a fifth wheel hitch option. Also, Superchargers are not configured to accept charging with Cybertruck towing a trailer. You'd have to unhitch, stow the trailer somewhere, charge the truck, then re-hitch. That's a hassle not many are going to want to deal with. Furthermore many Superchargers are leased on premises where there is no room to expand the parking for a Cybertruck with a trailer.
2017 Ford F450 - our kids call her "Big Red"
2018 Grand Design Reflection 28bh
Freezer Opens on Travel Day?
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