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05-24-2019, 05:26 AM #1
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How to troubleshoot blown monitor panel fuse
I had just finished buttoning up the RV after installing a new Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C. Last thing to do was retract the slides, hook up, and take the unit back to storage. I depressed the retract switch and the living room slides started coming in -- but the retracting stopped before the slides were fully retracted. "Darn," I said. Not this, again. (I had had two episodes with the slides while still under warranty. They "fixed" the problem by installing a separate breaker for each slide motor -- GD's latest recommended solution to the under-sized breaker problem.) This is what I did to troubleshoot. I'm looking for advice on what I should have done.
1. The slide motor breaker(s) are supposed to be self-resetting. I waited and tried to retract after a wait. Tried this for 5-10 minutes. Nothing.
2. I checked the breaker panel for tripped breakers or lighted up fuses. Nothing. I went to the slide pump/motor (located in the front storage) and tried to locate the breakers. Maybe I could manually reset them. Had no idea where to look. Never identified the slide motor breakers.
3. So I started making sure all electrical connections to the pump/motor and at the OEM bus-bar were tight. They were.
4. Went back to the monitor panel and tried again. No joy. For no good reason, I pressed some other switches on the monitor panel: Battery level gauge, holding tank levels. Strange: The battery light flashed and then wouldn't light. Then I tried to switch interior 12V lights on. (The switch is on the monitor panel.) No interior 12V lights. And now, entire monitor panel is dead.
5. Got my multi-meter and went to the battery. Verified I had 13+ volts from the battery to the bus-bar. Verified I had 13+ volts across all bus-bar breakers. Verified I had 13+ volts to the big (10 AWG?) hydraulic pump. Then found that the small (14 AWG) red/white wire to the pump was not hot. I knew that was a problem.
6. Tried to trace that wire to its source, but it disappeared into a wrapped bundle. But a red/white did come out of the bundle and was connected to the bus-bar. Re-verified that bus-bar connection was hot. Very confused.
7. I had previously verified that both sides of the back of the OEM main shutoff switch were hot. The switch throw for that switch is in the basement. Made sure that switch was on. While in the basement, I turned on a basement 12V light. It worked!. Turned on a 12V light in the front storage. It worked! Went back to the monitor panel. Switching the monitor panel's interior light switch -- nothing. Went to the bedroom and switched on a light. Yes!
8. That's when it occurred to me that my monitor panel was dead. At first I thought one of the 110V breakers controlled it. Then I realized you need monitor/control while boon docking, so I read the labels on the fuses. Monitor panel, 15 amps.
9. Replaced the fuse, and voila. Everything is working.
So, as you can see, I basically stumbled onto the problem and the fix. What should I have done?
And why didn't that monitor panel fuse light up to indicate it was blown? I thought they were supposed to do that.
Suggestions welcome. Thanks.
-SteveSteve and Renee
2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes, Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles
2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
18k B&W Companion, non-slider
640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
Somerset, WI
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05-24-2019, 05:32 AM #2
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Oh, that red/white wire that wasn't hot at the pump? I'm guessing it was hot out of the bus-bar, then it disappeared to the monitor panel switch, then came back to actuate the pump. It wouldn't be hot unless the switch was activated -- which wasn't happening with a dead monitor panel.
Steve and Renee
2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes, Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles
2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
18k B&W Companion, non-slider
640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
Somerset, WI
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05-24-2019, 08:56 AM #3
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Good troubleshooting.
I wonder if the blown fuse led would have lit when you pressed the battery monitor button on the panel.
Maybe the circuit board doesn't draw enough milliamps when idle.
I've tried writing down some of the wiring coming out of the backside of the convenience center panel so I can mod former member klenger's drawing(reference library) for my rig.
Did some more digging after reading your post.
Did find the whole convenience panel is a Custom Multi-Switch Panel sold by American Technology Components to the RV mfgrs.
Back side of my battery/tank level module has 8 wires coming out of its circuit board, didn't see Yellow or Pink on that label.
Looking at the front and klenger's drawing, Yellow is Water Pump LED, Pink is for DSI LED on the panel.
My rig's Yellow wire from the circuit board is crimped to a WH/GN wire behind the panel.
WH/GN in my rig goes to Fuse Panel F9 and my water pump also has WH/GN going to the fuse near the pump.
Shows how each of the rigs can be wired differently to get the same end result.
My DC Fuse Panel number got a little skewed from the factory, so F9 isn't labeled right either.
Klenger had done a better job of tracing and documenting his panel's wiring.
He shows the Yellow wire going to his relocated 10A fuse for the water pump.
Last edited by gbkims; 05-24-2019 at 09:46 AM. Reason: Fuse Panel photo added
- Gene
Kim & Gene
2015 Reflection 317RST
2017 Ram 3500 CC LB 4x2 6.7 CTD AISIN 3.73 DRW Auto Level Rear Air, BD3, Prodigy P3, Aux Tank
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05-24-2019, 02:47 PM #4
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Two more notes/questions I forgot to mention:
-- As i was snooping around in the front storage.battery compartment for bad connections, I noticed the Schwintek front slide controller box was putting out red led flashes. I knew the Schwintek controller was for the bedroom slide-out -- which had already been successfully retracted -- but I was plenty confused at this point, so I investigated the red flashes. Nine red flashes on Hall switch 1: Short to ground. Huh? How could that be? I stopped snooping and came in to do some web searches involving hall switch short to ground, but finally gave up because it didn't seem relevant to my issues.
In the end, after replacing the monitor panel fuse, the Schwintek error cleared by itself, and all was good. I am still dumb-founded by the Short to Ground error on the unrelated slide. Can anyone explain that?
-- Second question is what's going on with my monitor panel. Why did its fuse blow? Interestingly, the day we picked up the trailer after purchase -- at the Pre-Delivery Inspection -- a fuse blew. I think it was while retracting the slides, and I think it was the monitor panel fuse, but I'm not sure. The service manager himmed and hawed, and I said, "this is a problem", but we all just let it go after he replaced the fuse. Can anyone offer suggestions on how to debug why/when the monitor panel is drawing excess current?
Thanks.
-SteveSteve and Renee
2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes, Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles
2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
18k B&W Companion, non-slider
640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
Somerset, WI
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05-24-2019, 03:38 PM #5
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If I’m not mistaken that’s the same fuse that we blew running in both awnings at the same time. There is enough current to run them in , but when they stop and stall , current draw goes up. Blown fuse . No control panel.
CharlieVickie & Charlie
2019 310GK-R
2020 RAM Longhorn DRW Cummins /Aisin
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05-24-2019, 05:59 PM #6
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Oh wow, Charlie. Thank you for that. Our slides really rock and roll as they retract. Sometimes they bind and temporarily stall. That's exactly what happened the night the monitor panel fuse blew.
We had the dealer "adjust" the slides to eliminate rock and roll a couple of times last year (covered under warranty). But they still rock and roll and sometimes bind. Never had this issue with our Keystone Laredo electric slides.
I'm thinking our new protocol should be to stop retracting if a slide binds, extend, and try retracting again. i'm gonna give that a try.Steve and Renee
2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes, Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles
2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
18k B&W Companion, non-slider
640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
Somerset, WI
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05-24-2019, 06:17 PM #7
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I'd traced some wires and pulled some fuses to see what stopped working.
My schwintek controller is fed 12 volts from the front compartment with WH/RD 10 Awg wire.
My schwintek motors won't run if I pull a fuse in the AC/DC panel that's labeled Awning.
My Awning fuse seems to feed 12 volts to: schwintek motors, porch light, step light, awning motors, water pump.
I haven't traced the monitor panel's +12 volts that ties to the water heater switches.
Klenger's sheet 7 drawing shows the monitor panel being fed from the water heater fuse via the switches, but I know he changed up some of his wiring.
I did move the awning light 2A fuse from behind the convenience switch panel down to the fuse panel.- Gene
Kim & Gene
2015 Reflection 317RST
2017 Ram 3500 CC LB 4x2 6.7 CTD AISIN 3.73 DRW Auto Level Rear Air, BD3, Prodigy P3, Aux Tank
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05-26-2019, 09:07 AM #8
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I may be barking up the wrong tree but we had a swintek motor with a bad wire connection. Unfortunately it's on top of the motor and can only be seen when the motor is removed. This would also account for your slide binding, motor cuts out intermittently.
For binding slides lubricate the gear bars with SuperLube, make sure they are clean, run your slide in and out fully for a couple of times holding the switch down until the slide completely stops.Dallas
2017 Momentum 376TH, 2019 Ford F450, Dual Rear Wheel, 4x4, diesel.
2015 Harley-Davidson Street, XG750
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05-26-2019, 10:33 AM #9
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"For binding slides lubricate the gear bars" . . . It's not a lube problem. On the 310GK at least, the slide out boxes literally pitch and rock like a hobby horse -- especially as they retract. The box bottom comes up and the top leans back. Then with a little more retraction, the box top will roll forward, sometimes binding on the slide out opening's header. It's a disturbing motion, but the dealer swears it's working as designed. I think the design stinks.
You referred to a Schwintek connection issue. Isn't the Schwintek the electric slide out motor. My issue is with the hydraulic-pump slide outs.Steve and Renee
2018 Solitude 310GK, disc brakes, Morryde SRE4000/XFactor with heavy duty shackles
2012 Ram 3500 SRW 6.7 Diesel, air bags
18k B&W Companion, non-slider
640 watts solar, 400 amp-hour Lion Safari UT 1300 battery bank
Aims 1500 watt inverter/charger with ATS
Somerset, WI
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05-26-2019, 11:46 AM #10
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The "rocking and rolling" on the 310 main slides is how they get a good seal all around with power applied only on the bottom. The slide's roller arrangement causes the slide to have a pivot point.
When closed, the pivot point of the slide is outside the center of gravity, causing the slide to want to tilt in. This makes sure that the top is well sealed. The ram on the bottom makes sure the bottom is well sealed.
When the slide is extended, the pivot point is inside the CG, so the slide wants to tip outward. Again, this makes sure the top is well sealed.
During extension or retraction, the pivot point passes through the CG causing the surprising (and gut wrenching, the first time you see it) tipping.Al and Kathe
House: Bass Harbor, Maine
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