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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    Oh, I didn't realize the WFCO used a normally closed on the shore power line, I thought both were normally open and it energized the correct contactor.
    It’s the only one I know of that’s like that. The Progressive Dynamics transfer switches always have a contactor energized.

    Agreed on failure likelihoods.

    One caveat, the WFCO is a 50A transfer switch. The 7kw genny would have 58A neutral and line current (assuming it’s a 120V genny). The Progressive Dynamics PD52 has a 70A rating for neutral current, 50A line.
    Larry and JoAnna
    ‘23 Chevy 3500HD CCLB DRW High Country 6.6L Diesel, ‘22 Solitude 310GK-R, Hensley BD5
    MORRyde 8k IS, QD8000 Genny, Dual 5kVA Quattros
    Dual SOK 48V 100ah Server Rack Batts (10kWHr)

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMagelitz View Post
    It’s the only one I know of that’s like that. The Progressive Dynamics transfer switches always have a contactor energized.

    Agreed on failure likelihoods.

    One caveat, the WFCO is a 50A transfer switch. The 7kw genny would have 58A neutral and line current (assuming it’s a 120V genny). The Progressive Dynamics PD52 has a 70A rating for neutral current, 50A line.
    Interesting, thank you. I thought my transfer switch was a WFCO, but, now you're making me question if I'm remembering our old rig! I'll have to go out and look. One great thing, it's SO easy to get to the transfer switch in our new RV, it's right next to the generator, just sitting there hung on the wall. In our 351M it was deep in the bowels, not a fun place to try to get to!

    This is what I was looking at to replace it if it isn't a normally closed shore power line:
    https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/...vYYUd_tCdzqUb8

    I wasn't aware that all the WFCOs are like that, I figured that was the reason this one is much more expensive!

    Yes, it's a 120V genny and I suspect you're right, it's over 50A on the neutral line. The wires coming in from the genny are doubled up for neutral compared to the two 120V feeds.

    As an aside, I have NO idea why these RV generators put out 2X120 instead of standard 240V?!?! There are a few hassles that causes for various applications and honestly, I can't think of single thing that's better about in phase 120V coils vs a standard setup, out of phase, that gives both 120 and 240V.
    2020 Grand Design 351M (sold)
    2022 Luxe 44FB
    2019 F450 KR w/Hensley BD5F

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    Interesting, thank you. I thought my transfer switch was a WFCO, but, now you're making me question if I'm remembering our old rig! I'll have to go out and look. One great thing, it's SO easy to get to the transfer switch in our new RV, it's right next to the generator, just sitting there hung on the wall. In our 351M it was deep in the bowels, not a fun place to try to get to!

    This is what I was looking at to replace it if it isn't a normally closed shore power line:
    https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/...vYYUd_tCdzqUb8

    I wasn't aware that all the WFCOs are like that, I figured that was the reason this one is much more expensive!

    Yes, it's a 120V genny and I suspect you're right, it's over 50A on the neutral line. The wires coming in from the genny are doubled up for neutral compared to the two 120V feeds.

    As an aside, I have NO idea why these RV generators put out 2X120 instead of standard 240V?!?! There are a few hassles that causes for various applications and honestly, I can't think of single thing that's better about in phase 120V coils vs a standard setup, out of phase, that gives both 120 and 240V.
    That looks like a good transfer switch.

    Agreed, I would have preferred a 120/240V genny. Split phase is unavoidable for shore power, so it would be nice if that was adopted for an RV genny.
    Larry and JoAnna
    ‘23 Chevy 3500HD CCLB DRW High Country 6.6L Diesel, ‘22 Solitude 310GK-R, Hensley BD5
    MORRyde 8k IS, QD8000 Genny, Dual 5kVA Quattros
    Dual SOK 48V 100ah Server Rack Batts (10kWHr)

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMagelitz View Post
    That looks like a good transfer switch.

    Agreed, I would have preferred a 120/240V genny. Split phase is unavoidable for shore power, so it would be nice if that was adopted for an RV genny.
    Is there any advantage to an in phase 2 line 120V generator vs split phase 240V? Forgetting about what I would like to have, I'm just struggling to understand why they even make two leg 120V in phase generators; I can't see anything that it would do better than a split phase generator and a lot of things it doesn't do as well (including the issue you identified, overloading the neutral, that's only because it's in phase, if it were split phase, the neutral only carries the difference between the load on the phases). Onan has identical models that are 240V split phase, I'm just not sure why they even bother to make a 120V dual leg generator at all; has to cost them more to have both models and, what's the advantage??
    2020 Grand Design 351M (sold)
    2022 Luxe 44FB
    2019 F450 KR w/Hensley BD5F

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    Is there any advantage to an in phase 2 line 120V generator vs split phase 240V? Forgetting about what I would like to have, I'm just struggling to understand why they even make two leg 120V in phase generators; I can't see anything that it would do better than a split phase generator and a lot of things it doesn't do as well (including the issue you identified, overloading the neutral, that's only because it's in phase, if it were split phase, the neutral only carries the difference between the load on the phases). Onan has identical models that are 240V split phase, I'm just not sure why they even bother to make a 120V dual leg generator at all; has to cost them more to have both models and, what's the advantage??
    I don’t know of any advantage, and would have preferred 120/240. When I talked to the Cummins dealer about the Quiet Diesels, the 120v was the only choice with the 6kw and 8kw models. Not sure why they go that way, as those would never go in a 30a coach anyway.
    Larry and JoAnna
    ‘23 Chevy 3500HD CCLB DRW High Country 6.6L Diesel, ‘22 Solitude 310GK-R, Hensley BD5
    MORRyde 8k IS, QD8000 Genny, Dual 5kVA Quattros
    Dual SOK 48V 100ah Server Rack Batts (10kWHr)

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    Is there any advantage to an in phase 2 line 120V generator vs split phase 240V? Forgetting about what I would like to have, I'm just struggling to understand why they even make two leg 120V in phase generators; I can't see anything that it would do better than a split phase generator and a lot of things it doesn't do as well (including the issue you identified, overloading the neutral, that's only because it's in phase, if it were split phase, the neutral only carries the difference between the load on the phases). Onan has identical models that are 240V split phase, I'm just not sure why they even bother to make a 120V dual leg generator at all; has to cost them more to have both models and, what's the advantage??
    No advantages. FWIW, the 240v models are still single phase. 240v split phase is RARELY needed. 240v is rarely needed (unless you are running mini-splits that are becoming more common in the Luxury 5th wheel word, i.e. New Hor and Spacecraft).

    Since you are doing the MP II 2x120v, I will tell you it doesn't matter. The MP will completely ignore line 2 and only use line 1 from the GenSet. The MP will recognize the same phase and close line 2 from the Genny.

    About neutral overload, I wouldn't worry about it unless you get over a 7000w GenSet. You'll trip breakers before overloading the neutral (usually).

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    I think they make very good products, it's not a knock on Victron, it's a hesitation putting anything that sophisticated in line between the shore power inlet and the RV. Just seems a lot of things that can go wrong that wind up with "no power" situations in the RV, which, of course, is exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

    I'm thinking of reversing the wiring order, instead

    1) Shore power - transfer switch - Victron - Coach
    go
    2) Shore power - Victron - transfer switch - coach

    The advantage here is that my generator autostart monitors the "shore" line already on the transfer switch. If the Victron went out, it would appear that shore power was dropped, the generator would start and then power would be restored. This moves the single point of failure to the transfer switch instead of the Victron, not sure which is more reliable, but transfer switches are dead simple, so a lot less room for user/configuration error. I have no need for PowerAssist on my generator line, it's a 7K generator, more than enough to power anything we need in the RV. The only issue with this configuration; if the generator is running and there's no shore power, the batteries won't be charged by the Victron (there won't be any power to the inlet side of the Victron). But with solar, I don't see that as a showstopper.

    What do you think, crazy to move the SPOF to a 200 dollar transfer switch instead of a 2000 dollar Victron? Or good idea?
    I am very puzzled here, Why do you need a transfer switch. Its built in to the Multiplus. Or do you have a separate generator?

    This is how I wired mine its just the 120V Multiplus, but the same applies to the Multiplus II

    Take external shore power direct to the multiplus (EMS in line is OK) input Then take the AC output direct to your distribution panel. That way the Multiplus can power the whole trailer. Disconnect the 120V AC from, but leave your existing converter in place. The Multiplus replaces this device and powers the DC charge side and acts as the converter.

    Simple

    Now in case of failure you can splice the input AC shore power feed and the AC output wires at the converter (get the appropriate wire nuts and keep in you OOP'S box). Reconnect 120V to your stock converter and your back in business in a few minutes.

    Hope this helps
    2018 Reflection 150 Series 220RK 5th wheel with 6K axle upgrade. B&W 25K OEM Companion, Steadyfast system, 2022 F350 SRW 6.7 King Ranch 8' bed, Trailer reverse lights, rear spare tire holder, storage tube, sumo springs, Victron MultiPlus 12/120/3000, and Solar

  8. #18
    Site Sponsor jbailey's Avatar
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    Overtaxed -

    I have used a victron Multiplus 12v/3000w/120amp for years now, I think i originally installed it in 2017. I love the Victron stuff. If you are concerned about failure, the nice thing is you cannect the Victon equipment to the internet and go two routes.

    Alerts - have the system send you alerts if you have any sort of failure - power in, power out, overload etc....
    Remote Monitoring - you can log into the system and ensure everything is on and running as expected from the VRM app or even webpage

    I love the victron stuff and highly recomend.

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    Ben & Camille
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  9. #19
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    Hi there, I use the sensor push internet temperature monitors in my camper with pets in the camper when we are gone. Any where you can get cell service, you can get a reading of the temp in your camper. I f you loose internet at your camper you would of course not get the info. Or if you loose cell service where you are, away from the camper. But if you just go to dinner or a trip into town its nice to have.
    1st 5er- 2006 titanium 32/37. current 5er-2021 Solitude 310GKR
    1st camper-2001 Lance slide in
    1st truck-2001 chevy silverado 2500 HD 8.1 vortec-Allison trans. current truck-2011 chevy silverado HD duramax, allison LTZ

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerscol View Post
    I am very puzzled here, Why do you need a transfer switch. Its built in to the Multiplus. Or do you have a separate generator?

    This is how I wired mine its just the 120V Multiplus, but the same applies to the Multiplus II

    Take external shore power direct to the multiplus (EMS in line is OK) input Then take the AC output direct to your distribution panel. That way the Multiplus can power the whole trailer. Disconnect the 120V AC from, but leave your existing converter in place. The Multiplus replaces this device and powers the DC charge side and acts as the converter.

    Simple

    Now in case of failure you can splice the input AC shore power feed and the AC output wires at the converter (get the appropriate wire nuts and keep in you OOP'S box). Reconnect 120V to your stock converter and your back in business in a few minutes.

    Hope this helps
    I have a generator on board as well, that's why I need the transfer switch. And what I'm trying to figure out is should that transfer switch be north (shore power - transfer switch - Multiplus) or south (shore power - Multiplus - transfer switch). My goal is to get the most reliable setup possible. I always keep the hardware to jump out a transfer switch if necessary (a few Morris connectors); what I'm more worried about is the power dropping while we're out hiking (hours away from the rig) because of a failure in the Multiplus. If the Multiplus is "north", I can't see a way to get redundancy there. If the Multiplus is "south", I can monitor using a generator autostart and, if the MP drops, I have the generator as a backup.


    Hi there, I use the sensor push internet temperature monitors in my camper with pets in the camper when we are gone. Any where you can get cell service, you can get a reading of the temp in your camper. I f you loose internet at your camper you would of course not get the info. Or if you loose cell service where you are, away from the camper. But if you just go to dinner or a trip into town its nice to have.
    We use Ubibot, but similar functionality. It'll tell me if the temp gets out of range (and also give me the power status inside the rig), but I'm worried about the situation that we're 10 miles back on a trail, yes, we might get the notification that power is out (might not, a lot of the places we hike don't have cell service), but what do you do about it at that point other than hustle for the car and pray? I want to build the system with as much redundancy as possible to make sure we drive the highest reliability.
    2020 Grand Design 351M (sold)
    2022 Luxe 44FB
    2019 F450 KR w/Hensley BD5F

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