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  1. #11
    Site Sponsor Lance Glogowsky's Avatar
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    I just ordered three of them from Costco. They are on sale until March 22 or when they run out. You can only get them online. They do not have them in the store. That is probably a good thing because right now you would have to fight the huge line just to get in the front door. Especially since Costco only allows 175 people in the store at a time. At my Costco in Lehi Utah

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbkims View Post
    I put 2 lithium in the passthru. Changed up the wiring some.
    Gene
    I am planning my upgrade to two battleborns with inverter, switches and wiring very much like you show.
    On that negative bus, how can I determine the guage of the wire from bus to chassis?
    For me this is all new and very interesting.

    Tommy
    Tom and Kathy
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmrgn99 View Post
    On that negative bus, how can I determine the guage of the wire from bus to chassis?
    Factors to consider:
    BattleBorns can output 100A each - to be completely safe this is the real limit, so at least 2/0. But if you really need that much current you probably need more batteries.
    Charger output - everytime you plug in! Depending on your wiring it can be added to the battery output. Try to avoid that!
    Maximum Load (everything on) - again it's unlikely but very possible
    Fuse size - nobody likes burning fuses, but matching the wire and fuse is critical
    Leave lots of extra capacity - voltage drop can be a major concern and result in all the wiring being a heater that drains your system. Cheaping out here will cost you in the long term.

    http://assets.bluesea.com/files/reso...on_chartlg.jpg
    Rick

    2019 Reflection 150 273MK
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    PullRite Superglide

  4. #14
    Site Sponsor Lance Glogowsky's Avatar
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    OK, please tell my where I'm going wrong or could do better.
    I mentioned this a little on another thread, but just to get everyone's thoughts here. I received my Safari Lithium batteries a few weeks back. (Ordered two and they were lost in the shipping so I ordered two more before the Costco sale was off. Before I knew it 5 arrived at my house within a week of each other. I won't talk about the 5th one. At least one is going back) and finally received my PD9160 charger/converter and Victron monitor a few days ago. My thoughts is to place the new converter where the old WFCO converter is located, which is next to the DC panel. Upgrade the 6 gauge wiring to 4 gauge from the converter to the panel (2' away) and then route the upgraded 4 gauge from the panel along the top ceiling of my pass through to the battery cutoff switch, continuing onto the front compartment bus bar, and then the batteries. I'm assuming I need to upgrade to 4 gauge on the negative side of the batteries to my Victron shunt and grounding it to the trailer? I planned on connecting my 00 wire from the positive side of my inverter directly to the + battery terminal and negative side to the non-battery side of the shunt or I guess I could ground the Inverter negative to the trailer along with the negative wire from the shunt.
    I figuring this will cut off about a third of the wire length that is in there now and help with my voltage loss and charging. Currently, 13.6 volts coming off the WFCO converter going down to 13.2 volts at the front compartment bus bar. I'm assuming the brake, and slide wiring comes off the front compartment bus bar and won't be effected with my new wiring job?

    Please give me your thoughts.

    Lance
    Lynne and Lance
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  5. #15
    Left The Driveway walkerrt's Avatar
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    I have a 2019 Grand Design Toyhauler... 385 I believe, it kills its battery in just a few hours with the fridge and the wifi/broadband as the only things on. The battery tests out good but damn!!! I am planning to upgrade to a lithium or 2 and hopefully this weekend I can amp test the load with those 2 things shut off and look for a short. Is the battery life really that bad on the new campers? I would like to keep a pair of batteries up front because we pack that little cubby hole full when we travel.

  6. #16
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    Lance,
    I'd have to draw it out to be sure I understand it all. But here are some thoughts.

    Yes, upgrading 6g is warranted. IMHO GD did a very bad thing putting 55A on 6g no matter how short the run. However, 4g wire has almost twice the resistance of 2g. You have to go to 00 drop another half. I'm going all 2g.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It sounds like your disconnect would cut off the brakes.

    I believe all fuses and disconnects should be on the same side of the system. Most folks do the pos, but there are a lot of misunderstandings about negative disconnects.

    If you use 00 for the inverter pos, then the neg should match, all the way to the battery. Otherwise you have an electrical bottleneck (heater), or a fuse.

    Shortening the wire runs is a the main reason I'm putting my batteries next to the charger & panel. Heat and space saving are #2 & 3.


    Walkerrt,
    I'm afraid there isn't enough info in your post to make a meaningful comment. I suggest measuring each circuit out of the panel as well as the whole load. Some rigs have several sensors and electronics that don't go through the main power panel.

    A residential fridge could drain a typical battery that fast.

    Inverters have a load when not in use as well as an efficiency penalty.

    When you get some more info you might want to start a new thread. You'll get more attention that way.
    Rick

    2019 Reflection 150 273MK
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  7. #17
    Site Sponsor gbkims's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmrgn99 View Post
    Gene...
    On that negative bus, how can I determine the guage of the wire from bus to chassis?

    Tommy
    With a TT that has batteries up front on the tongue, the battery -12V wire looks to run to the frame close to where the CBs are mounted.
    Couple of picts from Howson's 315RLTS Electrical Mod Feedback Requested thread:
    TT Jct Box & CBs on Frame https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...l=1#post218190
    TT CBs on Frame https://www.mygrandrv.com/forum/show...l=1#post227986

    If I remember correctly, my rig had 6 Awg originally running from the 12V battery Negative to the metal in my front compartment and 6 Awg running from the AC/DC panel's -12V bar to the frame below as well as another 6 Awg wire to the converter's -12V terminal.
    So the frame was being used to connect the battery to the DC panel & then the converter.

    Since I put batteries in the passthru with them closer to the converter I could use the larger 2/0 wire to parallel the batteries and run that to the new DC bus bars.
    I used 4 Awg from the converter to the new DC bus bar. Kept the 6 Awg from converter to the AC/DC panel.
    So the way I rewired mine, I'm not using the frame to pass 12V current, so just left the 6 Awg from my bus bar to the frame.
    Last edited by gbkims; 04-25-2020 at 03:48 PM.
    - Gene

    Kim & Gene
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  8. #18
    Site Sponsor gbkims's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance Glogowsky View Post
    OK, please tell my where I'm going wrong or could do better.
    I mentioned this a little on another thread, but just to get everyone's thoughts here. I received my Safari Lithium batteries a few weeks back. (Ordered two and they were lost in the shipping so I ordered two more before the Costco sale was off. Before I knew it 5 arrived at my house within a week of each other. I won't talk about the 5th one. At least one is going back) and finally received my PD9160 charger/converter and Victron monitor a few days ago. My thoughts is to place the new converter where the old WFCO converter is located, which is next to the DC panel. Upgrade the 6 gauge wiring to 4 gauge from the converter to the panel (2' away) and then route the upgraded 4 gauge from the panel along the top ceiling of my pass through to the battery cutoff switch, continuing onto the front compartment bus bar, and then the batteries. I'm assuming I need to upgrade to 4 gauge on the negative side of the batteries to my Victron shunt and grounding it to the trailer? I planned on connecting my 00 wire from the positive side of my inverter directly to the + battery terminal and negative side to the non-battery side of the shunt or I guess I could ground the Inverter negative to the trailer along with the negative wire from the shunt.
    I figuring this will cut off about a third of the wire length that is in there now and help with my voltage loss and charging. Currently, 13.6 volts coming off the WFCO converter going down to 13.2 volts at the front compartment bus bar. I'm assuming the brake, and slide wiring comes off the front compartment bus bar and won't be effected with my new wiring job?

    Please give me your thoughts.

    Lance
    Lance,

    Sounds like you have 4 batteries to install.
    4 Awg is the largest wire the PD9160 terminals will directly accept.
    The 9160's output would then send max of 60A up front the the batteries and the amps would be divided into the 4 batteries, so charge each battery at about 15 amps max.
    I'd put a fuse or CB near the bus bar for the 4 Awg to protect its run to the batteries.
    For paralleling 4 lithium batteries in the front compartment - 2/0 between the batteries.

    I think you'll need a DC bus bar up in the front compartment where you can run the battery(s) wire to with the BMV712 directly connected in between the -12V of the batteries and the bus bar.
    Then connect the 4 Awg from bus bar going back to the converter and from the bus bar wires sized to the inverter.
    The BMV712 needs to be directly between the -12V of the batteries w/o any other connection like the inverter or the reading won't be correct.

    Front compartment wiring for brakes, slides, lights not affected by this as long as you just tie them onto new DC bus bar.

    For the inverter you'd need a larger wire and fuse, like a Class T or ANL to protect from batteries to inverter.
    Like from one inverter's manual 3.5.4 Fuse Protection In The Battery Circuit https://www.samlexamerica.com/docume...-0320_Lrez.pdf
    and Blue Sea https://www.bluesea.com/support/arti...ttery_Chargers
    Last edited by gbkims; 04-25-2020 at 07:37 PM.
    - Gene

    Kim & Gene
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  9. #19
    Site Sponsor Lance Glogowsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbkims View Post
    Lance,

    Sounds like you have 4 batteries to install.
    4 Awg is the largest wire the PD9160 terminals will directly accept.
    The 9160's output would then send max of 60A up front the the batteries and the amps would be divided into the 4 batteries, so charge each battery at about 15 amps max.
    I'd put a fuse or CB near the bus bar for the 4 Awg to protect its run to the batteries.
    For paralleling 4 lithium batteries in the front compartment - 2/0 between the batteries.

    I think you'll need a DC bus bar up in the front compartment where you can run the battery(s) wire to with the BMV712 directly connected in between the -12V of the batteries and the bus bar.
    Then connect the 4 Awg from bus bar going back to the converter and from the bus bar wires sized to the inverter.
    The BMV712 needs to be directly between the -12V of the batteries w/o any other connection like the inverter or the reading won't be correct.

    Front compartment wiring for brakes, slides, lights not affected by this as long as you just tie them onto new DC bus bar.

    For the inverter you'd need a larger wire and fuse, like a Class T or ANL to protect from batteries to inverter.
    Like from one inverter's manual 3.5.4 Fuse Protection In The Battery Circuit https://www.samlexamerica.com/docume...-0320_Lrez.pdf
    and Blue Sea https://www.bluesea.com/support/arti...ttery_Chargers
    Thanks for your input and help. So just to make sure I have this down.
    I'll run my upgraded 4 gauge + - wiring from my PD9160 to the panel (the way it is now). Then from the panel the + wire through the battery disconnect, to the front compartment bus bar where the old +6 gauge wire is attached that came from the panel. Then from the bus bar, where to old 6 gauge wiring is connected to the batteries positive post. For safety, place a fuse on the + wire near the battery. (I'm sure that bus bar is some type of CB, but I don't know the official name for it) Connect the - wire, from the panel, to a new - bus bar, or directly to the trailer (in the front compartment) and then onto the negative post of the battery, with the Monitor shunt in between close to the battery.
    Regarding the inverter: You mentioned using larger wires then my 00 wires I have attached now? For safety, I need to add a class T type fuse on the 00+ side to the batteries. I need to use 00 wire from the battery side of the shunt to the - battery post to match the inverters 00 wire that will attach the non battery side of the shunt. I assume the 00 and 4 gauge wire will both fit on the shunt.
    I will ensure the TT brake and slide wiring is on the battery side of the cutoff switch. I read in another post where the co2 detector is connected from the DC panel. If so, wouldn't it lose power if the battery cutoff is turned off?
    Sorry for the long POST. Hopefully I'm closer to having it right.
    Lynne and Lance
    2023 Solitude 2930 Current and Forever
    2018 Reflection 303RLS Traded In
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  10. #20
    Site Sponsor gbkims's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance Glogowsky View Post
    Thanks for your input and help. So just to make sure I have this down.
    Looks OK.

    Front compartment bus bars vary between the rigs and might be tight for connecting larger wire lugs.
    You may have a copper bar with auto resetting CBs connected to it.
    So I like the idea of adding some bus bars, like the Blue Sea or Fastronix 3/8" 4 Stud Power Distribution Block with Cover to make it easier to connect several wires.

    The 00 (2/0) wire size is good for the batteries and inverter. Guessing you've got a 2000W or less size inverter.
    The inverter manual should suggest the wire size to use per model/size.
    I did use some 4/0 just b/c I'd bought it early on & so used it, but I didn't have to go that large.

    The Class T or ANL fuse would go to the inverter's +DC input. It protects the cables against a failure in the inverter electronics.
    I put a fuse near the battery connection b/c there's a whole lot of stored energy in these batteries and I'd rather pop a fuse then accidentally melt a wire or tool.

    The BMV shunt has 3/8" brass bolt connections for the wire lugs.

    CO2 detector wiring also seems to vary with models.
    I think C)2 and my radio's memory power would still be powered on with the battery disconnect switch off as originally wired.
    I lost track of whether it was wired in at the front compartment or the DC panel.
    - Gene

    Kim & Gene
    2015 Reflection 317RST
    2017 Ram 3500 CC LB 4x2 6.7 CTD AISIN 3.73 DRW Auto Level Rear Air, BD3, Prodigy P3, Aux Tank

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