Truck silliness and F250 diesel weights

[Marauderer]

Great thread and kudos to all that have contributed. I just bought my first 5er and thought my 07 GMC Sierra Classic 2500HD D/A 4wd would be more than sufficient to to My Reflection 337rls. I was on another Grand design forum and learned a lot. I have been towing trailers for 55 yrs and thought I was extremely knowledgeable. Bad assumption on my part. I have always paid attention to tongue weight and have never had a problem with sway but having seen multiple problems on the road by others I always have had more than minimum suspension upgrades. My 07 being 4wd does not come with a sway bar from the factory as it will inhibit suspension articulation off road. I towed a Puma 30ft tag along for the better part of 10 yrs and used an Equalizer antisway hitch system. Trailer weight was at least 11K lbs. I have added a Helliweg heavy duty sway bar and air bags to my rear suspention. The Helliweg really stabilized the travel trailer and the airbags are used to level the rig not to increase the weight rating. It towed the TT very well but not as well as the 5er. Anyone running a SRW drive should seriously consider adding a swybar or increasing their swaybar to a heavy duty model. This is a very modest expenditure for the increase you will get in suspension performance. I also weigh my rig and make sure I have 10-20% of my weight on the hitch pin.

My current weight with the 5er empty with 1/3 fresh water tank is:

Ft axle 4380
Rr axle 5600
Trl axles 8920
Gross 18900

I am running Nitto Terra Grappler G2 17/285 E rated at 3195 lbs So, I can go to 6390 lbs on the rear without exceeding the tire weight. The 2500HD runs the same axle and bearings on the rear that the 3500 does. Hence the yellow sticker syndrome is there.

Truck empty:

Fr axle 4400 lbs
Rr axle 3480 lbs



Tomorrow we are going on our first camping trip with the 5er. It is only 50 mi. away but there is a set of CAT scales on the way so I will know how much I weigh. The dealer we purchased from is 100 mi. away for we had a good shakedown on the way home. Wow, the 5er really towed considerably better than the TT.

Again thank you all that have contributed to this thread.

[nuggett]

This is my 1st post and I though I might share some real world numbers.
First of all the truck is a 2019 f350 superduty (SRW) and I've add a Titan fuel tank (55gl.) ,air bags, B&W companion slider,Hellwig sway bar, and a retractable tonneau cover.With a full tank of fuel,myself and the wife in the vehicle along with the other mentioned add on's the CAT scale numbers are ;
steer axle 5120
drive axle 3840
gross weight 8960

When I picked up the toy hauler I scaled it on the way home and here are the numbers with the above mentioned add on's and an EMPTY 351m;
steer axle 5180
drive axle 6660
trailer axle 11920
gross weight 23760
pin weight of 2820 with an empty trailer.

With the 351M,100gl water,2018 RZR xp1000 in the garage,food,clothes,and 15gl fuel for the generator here are the CAT scale numbers;
steer axle 5120
drive axle 6420
trailer axle 15340
gross weight 26880
My calculations brings me to the conclusion that the pin weight is 2600 #

[Overtaxed]

Awesome data, thank you Nugget! Do you have a genny? I'm really very surprised at those numbers, that's UNDER what GD says (2785), and everyone says their numbers are silly low (not realistic). And yet, you're coming up under (significantly) with a nearly full water tank? I'm shocked, to be honest, I keep seeing "plan for 4K" when people are talking about these things. The RZR helps, I'm sure, but not as much as I'd think 100 gallons of water hurts! Very interesting, no matter what I wind up doing for a truck, I'll certainly get my hitched weight on the 351M and report back here, at least to help others.

Also interesting, 15340 on the trailer with 2600 on the pin, that's over the GVWR of the 351M isn't it? Or is that with the math done already subtracting out the pin weight?

Now, the million dollar question, how do you feel towing the 351M with a SRW truck? Good, bad, OK, awful?

[dtaylor]

The newer Ford trucks have automatic sway control built in. If the trailer starts swaying, the truck will automatically speed up and apply the trailer brakes. This is the best thing to stop trailer sway.

[nuggett]

I'm sorry ,what is a genny ?
As for the numbers,it is what it is,those are right from the CAT scale receipt. AS far as towing,the 351M is a big trailer(there are bigger) but I've been doing this for a long time and learned to plan ahead when pulling in to fuel or stop for a rest.
I'm comfortable with the set up I have and the trailer pulls great. One thing I should have mentioned is the F350 I have is a SRW short bed.

[lorend]

How in the name of heck was overweight on a dual tandem with 7K on it? Shoot, isn't a single TIRE on a semi rated over 7K?

That shows you how complicated of an issue weight ratings really are. He was driving a 4 axle trailer with single wheels on each side with all the weight on the very rear axle. I drove a 53' trailer rated at 80,000lbs that had a slide axle. The two rear axles would actually slide forward and back to allow for tighter turning radius. With a fully loaded trailer it weighed in somewhere around 78,000. With the axle in the forward position I was overweight on the rear axles. With the axles slid all the way back I was legal on my weight. .As for your situation, my 29rs has a pin weight of around 1500 lbs empty. I have weighed my truck and trailer combo on all axles and come close on the rear axle rating but am overweight on my payload capacity when fully loading. Is it enough truck to pull a 31' 5er. Absolutely!! Is it overweight enough to warrant a ticket in some states? Maybe? I feel very comfortable towing this trailer with the 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 but am not sure how I would feel adding another 8 feet to the 5er length due to the change in the weight and trailer to tow vehicle ratio. Some of the new 3/4 ton trucks are being rated at 16k to 20k towing capacity which shows that they have either changed the rating system or the trucks have undergone drastic transformation. I think this issue will be debated for the rest of eternity. lol.

[JKellerJr]

It looks like Ford did up the GVWR for the F350 SRW to 12400 on the long box 4x4 Crew cab. That is up from 11,500 in 2019.

Look under Maximum Payload in this link.
https://media.ford.com/content/dam/f...Tech-Specs.pdf

They had no choice. Ram has been that high since 2013 and the GM twins went up for 2020 also.

[phonemannn]

The newer Ford trucks have automatic sway control built in. If the trailer starts swaying, the truck will automatically speed up and apply the trailer brakes. This is the best thing to stop trailer sway.

And it works! Pulling a 20K trailer, broke a weld on spring hanger, axle cocked side ways about 6 inches, tire cocked, sent me towards the left shoulder, next thing I knew, truck and trailer was nice and straight heading the right way on the freeway! Straddling two lanes but still no accident. No time to be scared....

[Marauderer]

The newer Ford trucks have automatic sway control built in. If the trailer starts swaying, the truck will automatically speed up and apply the trailer brakes. This is the best thing to stop trailer sway.

I would say getting the tongue weight correct is the best thing you can do to prevent sway. If you have to rely on the trucks system you are not ballasted properly.

[Overtaxed]

I'm sorry ,what is a genny ?
As for the numbers,it is what it is,those are right from the CAT scale receipt. AS far as towing,the 351M is a big trailer(there are bigger) but I've been doing this for a long time and learned to plan ahead when pulling in to fuel or stop for a rest.
I'm comfortable with the set up I have and the trailer pulls great. One thing I should have mentioned is the F350 I have is a SRW short bed.

Genny, short for "generator". Mine has one, and it's right up front, so all that weight is going on the truck bed. That's why I asked if you had one, because they weigh a few hundred lbs at the very front of the RV.

Some of the new 3/4 ton trucks are being rated at 16k to 20k towing capacity which shows that they have either changed the rating system or the trucks have undergone drastic transformation.

Or that the ratings are "make believe". how on earth Ford got +5000 lbs on the new 250 is beyond me. Same axle, same springs, magically jumped up almost 30% in tow rating. It's stuff like this that gets people to think that these numbers are just smoke in the wind. Yes, no doubt, you risk a ticket. But what did Ford do in 2020 that magically made the vehicle able to tow so much more? As far as I can tell (and I've asked in a few different places now), the answer is "changed the sticker to keep up with Ram". Well that's retarded and indicates that the 2019 (my truck) is underrated or the 2020 is overrated. I think the former is much more likely.