Had to bypass my EMS.......Anyone else have to?

[bjlakatos]

If you really meant dielectric grease, it is silicone-based and does not conduct electricity. It is not meant for application directly on the mating surfaces of connectors. If it's labeled "electrically conductive," it's OK for that application.

All due respect, by definition, dielectric grease is NOT a conductor. It is used on contact surfaces to prevent corrosion buildup which ensures the integrity of metal/metal contact.

Not sure I would want a conductive grease inside a connector that could result in contact-contact shorting….imagine trying to find that gremln.

This is a general purpose dielectric grease that I use for RV/Marine/Auto connections. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000AL8VD2...ing=UTF8&psc=1

[traveldawg]

Oh look, the autoformer/autotransformer debate again... I really hoped Mike Sokul was going to put the matter to bed on his deep testing dive in late 2020, but after 3 installments his work with the Hughes just died an he went on with other articles and studies... Maybe his findings supported the concern... I'm not here for this debate, but I did notice some misconception stated in this thread.

The problem of low voltage exists at old and new campgrounds alike... The Code actually allows for the proliferation of the problem within campgrounds with high occupancy. This is the direct result of application of the demand factors.

We travel near and far and stay in a host of campgrounds from State parks to private resorts to rented timeshared sites. Have encountered low voltage commonly throughout the last two summer seasons with jam-packed camping weekends, and of course, zero issues Tuesday through Thursday at them!

I thought it was just me and I couldn't find a follow-up to all his work on the autoformer debate. As I recall he found some kind of weird discrepancy at some point - that was what I think he dropped-the-ball on with no follow-up. And then I noticed he went all gun-ho on promoting the SoftStart AC product. In the end I figured he turned into just another "influencer" on YouTube. Too bad - he had done a lot of good work and a lot of it still is worthwhile, I just ignore any product he promotes/influences/pushes....

Sorry a bit off topic but this caught my eye.....

[watchdog pat]

The NFPA's autotransformer ban has been lifted.

moderator edit..... references to commercial enterprises and the operating specifics of such have been removed as they were in violation of our rules. The fact that the NFPA ruling has changed is information enough.....

[CX500T]

The NFPA's autotransformer ban has been lifted.

mod edit removed commercial-like advertising....

Totally agree. Power is power but using it more efficiently cuts down on total use.

The transformer losses (small but there) are more than offset by the electric motors running at design voltage. Not to mention they will live longer. Heat is the enemy of electrical devices (aside from things made to intentionally get ho)

Had one park freak out over my autoformer.

Its not going to pull more than 50A at the pole regardless of what I'm doing downstream with it.

My solution? My autoformer is mounted in my utility bay.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

[RickLight]

The NFPA's autotransformer ban has been lifted.

mod edit: removed commercial posting info....
.

Funny, I can't find any notices of changes to that requirement. TIA 20-8 recently changed GFCI rules, but no mention of autotransformers. I just checked the current version online and it's the same language that has been there for decades.

mod edit: removed commercial names.... OK to discuss the facts of rulings and rules but not of a specific manufacturers claims or counter-claims. Just trying to keep commercialism out of the forum while balancing factual information input.

Those arguing basic Ohms law should look into power factor and harmonics. Inductive devices operate with voltage and amperage out of phase and so W=VA doesn't apply. Such factors can cause major issues up stream!

[traveldawg]

Folks,
OI just edited a few posts to remove what was clearly some commercial-like posting of a companies specific product, the name of the company and what the company's would or wouldn't do.

It Ok to discuss an Autoformer - but not to sort of advertise. It's against our rules.

[RickLight]

Thanks for cleaning up.

However I think you left the the most damaging and easily verified lie. The NEC has NOT changed its rules! I'm happy to guide anyone through the sometimes arcane way the code works. And there are many others here that know the code well to keep me honest!

[traveldawg]

Thanks for cleaning up.

However I think you left the the most damaging and easily verified lie. The NEC has NOT changed its rules! I'm happy to guide anyone through the sometimes arcane way the code works. And there are many others here that know the code well to keep me honest!

Thanks for the vote of confidence in the clean-up, @RickLight. When I saw the posts following the "announcement" I figured that could be a good basis for sorting this out so all of us find out exactly what is happening.

As for me??? -- my Autoformer is in my basement out of the prying eyes of the public and campground operators. I got tired of folks who thought I was steeling electricity from their campers confronting me. Go figure....

I also figure that if some government agency does something meaningful or whatever then it will then be illegal to sell a device and that will be that. Until then I guess the debate goes on.

[RickLight]

Complex issues are hard to discuss on social media!

FYI our regulatory system is one of the most complex things these days. You're welcome to use your device where the NEC has not been adopted, or outside of an RV park. Local governments can't ban manufacturing something outside their area.

And yes, using one damages your RV neighbors. I've tried to present that as a moral guideline rather than a governmental mandate. Most of our legal compliance is by choice rather than by enforcement. Otherwise we'd have a police state like no other!

[JKellerJr]

That post was definitely sketchy. To the best of my knowledge the NFPA doesn't ban or lift bans of anything. They just make suggestions for the NEC which itself has no enforcement power either. All I could find was something about public comment from NFPA in 2021 on on a submittal by Hughes on lifting the ban.

Complex issues are hard to discuss on social media!

FYI our regulatory system is one of the most complex things these days. You're welcome to use your device where the NEC has not been adopted, or outside of an RV park. Local governments can't ban manufacturing something outside their area.

Very true. The NEC is really a bunch of suggestions. Its not "code" at least my definition of it. Individual jurisdictions are free to adopt all, none, some, change whatever they want (which would be the actual code). Makes it a bunch of fun running a remodeling business since every town, city, county, etc has there own requirements. But it is what all codes are based on.

And yes, using one damages your RV neighbors. I've tried to present that as a moral guideline rather than a governmental mandate.

I'll bite. Why is that? Setting aside any claims of it being more efficient using one, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but the NEC also states that acceptable voltage is between 114 and 126 +5% (not +/-5%). IMO if anyone has a moral obligation it would be the provider if they can not supply that. If I check in and they disclose we can only supply you with 110v with your service and we do not allow autoformers to make up the difference then I'm onboard. My choice if I that is acceptable or not. If you hide the fact that you can not provide a standard level of power then that's not on us. Would anyone find this acceptable at your home?

Why is it our moral obligation to run appliances at a damaging voltage level. Everyone has the same opportunity to run an autoformer, they are freely available to anyone who wants one.

Wouldn't banning the use of air conditioner's, or limiting everyone to a single unit vs 2 or 3 do infinitely more to making sure that everyone is getting the proper power/voltage? Why should 2/3 air units get more power then a single air unit? How about eliminating 50amp sites (that they charge extra for) to spread that power around if they have a substandard grid? One 50 amp site is worth more than 3 30's.

Yes, I get this is hyperbole, it would never happen. They would have to admit they have a substandard grid and stop charging extra for 50amp sites, business/profits would suffer. Better to push the problem onto the customer without telling them.