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  1. #21
    Long Hauler
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    This is just FWIW. I bought this trailer in August/September of 2021, and it is a 2019 built in 2018. I don't know how many miles the PO pulled it, but it had traveled some I know.

    I pulled the springs last summer because they were flat. I replaced the Lippert Equaflex with the Dexter EZ-Flex, and used the Dexter wet bolt kit for the new springs. All the brass/bronze bushings in the springs I took off looked okay, and the bushings in the Equaflex looked okay as well. When I bought the trailer it had wet bolts installed and they had been greased judging by the grease on the zerk. They all took grease, except for one, when I greased everything shortly after I took possession of it.

    As I said, I have no idea how many miles were on the trailer, but it had to have been several thousand after talking to the PO. Just a sketchy data point about the bushings.
    Howard and Peggy
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  2. #22
    Big Traveler dryfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyStar View Post
    I’m starting to wonder if it really matters if they are worn out. Seems folks replace them when grease will not go in. And find that they are all shot. I’m interested to know the risks of running with worn out bushings. When I pulled the one on my spring eye that would not take grease there was no bushing in there. And no evidence of one ever being in there. If they take grease is there a risk of breaking a greasy wet bolt. Just wondering.
    Not to get off topic, but I wonder the same. Folks on this forum are very knowledgeable about the design and working of all parts of our trailers. Some are engineers and others mechanics. I think of the vast amount of folks out there pulling trailers that don't even know what a bushing is, and wonder how many end up on the side of the road due to a spring eye defect.

    And this is by no way saying ignorance of the issue is a reason to forget routine maintenance! Just a thought.

    I've spent an inordinate amount of time lately thinking about bushings and the possible need to replace more frequently. As I stated in another thread, I wish the replacement process were easier so we could experiment with different bushings and different replacement intervals.
    Last edited by dryfly; 03-07-2023 at 09:38 AM.
    2020 Reflection 273MK

  3. #23
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    That's fair, but my F450 doesn't have seals either. It doesn't even have a wet bolt, it's just a bolt through a machined hole in the spring and good for 100K miles or so.

    If the bushing is smooth and the pin is smooth, it doesn't take much grease to keep the joint happy, in fact, it takes almost none because there's very little friction with a smooth joint. A sealed joint would be better, but just a dead on simple and standard joint like you'd see on any tractor front end loader would work fine, a hard bushing with a hard pin and a grease zerk.

    This is a fixable problem. And the fix doesn't have to cost 1000's, in fact, it might not cost 100 bucks to put in good, pressed in bushings that will last and are round from the factory.
    i have a 73 blazer 4x4 with over 350k on it. i replaced it's bushings with urethane about 25 years ago.
    but this is an apples to oranges comparison.
    leaf spring trailer suspensions have a lot of slop in them.
    this is evident whenever one is jacknifed into a camping spot. your f450 and my blazer do not need this amount of slop

    the best fix i have found so far are never fail bushings.my last tt a 2010 sabre had over 50k on them when i sold it
    i already have a set for my momentum.
    2021 398M Full Body Paint 8k axles. LRH tires. Disc brakes.
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  4. #24
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overtaxed View Post
    I have no idea why these bushings aren't a hard metal on both sides. Ever see how something like an excavator is put together? It has pin connection points that are exactly like what we have in a spring hanger. Exactly 0 of these joints will be a hard pin (steel) to a soft bushing (brass/bronze). They are all steel to steel, which works because all those joints are intended to be greased regularly.

    On trailers, it seems that we figure out the greasing part (wet bolts), but neglected the sleeves; you don't want a soft metal riding on a hard metal in a greased joint, you want hard to hard. A soft metal riding on hard is something that's used in a sacrificial joint, where the soft metal is intended to wear away to "lubricate" and protect the hard metal. I'm just not sure why we're not using steel bushings vs brass or bronze, unless it's to protect from a dry joint (steel to steel won't last long if you have no grease in it).
    They cannot be because of the hanger design/material. These aren't engineered, and the tighter you make without more upgrades the more prone to failure. Nonetheless, I'm all for engineered trailer suspensions!!
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
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    Mountains of Pennsylvania

  5. #25
    Big Traveler
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    They cannot be because of the hanger design/material. These aren't engineered, and the tighter you make without more upgrades the more prone to failure. Nonetheless, I'm all for engineered trailer suspensions!!
    That has to be it Geo. Sure, you could make the spring to pin connection last forever, but then other things would start breaking down the line.

  6. #26
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    The purpose of bushings in trailer spring suspensions is to reduce friction and prevent binding, which will break the suspension. The standard bushings are not specified for bearing, but arguably should be. Premature wear can be attributed from everything from poorly aligned suspension components, to poor choice of grease, overtorqued spring bolts/wet bolts, too much slop in fitment, not enough gap and on and on. Remember, GD was using the nylon bushings, which barely survived dealer transport. Neverfail bushings were discontinued, because you guessed it, they were constantly failing...

    History lesson, before Open Range was bought and now sitting on Lippert chassis, they actually built on their own and had an excellent sprung suspension with robust fabricated hangers and were stiffened side to side. The gobbling of companies into the current monsters came at the expense of better technology and innovation!

    @msutoad, your CRE on that side seems to have evidence of a bind based on the tracks at the center hanger of grease. You may have you frame brackets all in good alignment, but may have a spring that's cocked. Easy way to tell is to put the units up on the stabilizers and jack that axle evenly and take note if it's causing a bind. I have done a lot of suspension upgrades for fellow owners and I have seen springs that are not perfectly perpendicular to the axle right from the factory as well as well-intentioned repairs not realizing the problems it can cause in the system if not carefully checked.
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

    Mountains of Pennsylvania

  7. #27
    Seasoned Camper msutoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    The purpose of bushings in trailer spring suspensions is to reduce friction and prevent binding, which will break the suspension. The standard bushings are not specified for bearing, but arguably should be. Premature wear can be attributed from everything from poorly aligned suspension components, to poor choice of grease, overtorqued spring bolts/wet bolts, too much slop in fitment, not enough gap and on and on. Remember, GD was using the nylon bushings, which barely survived dealer transport. Neverfail bushings were discontinued, because you guessed it, they were constantly failing...

    History lesson, before Open Range was bought and now sitting on Lippert chassis, they actually built on their own and had an excellent sprung suspension with robust fabricated hangers and were stiffened side to side. The gobbling of companies into the current monsters came at the expense of better technology and innovation!

    @msutoad, your CRE on that side seems to have evidence of a bind based on the tracks at the center hanger of grease. You may have you frame brackets all in good alignment, but may have a spring that's cocked. Easy way to tell is to put the units up on the stabilizers and jack that axle evenly and take note if it's causing a bind. I have done a lot of suspension upgrades for fellow owners and I have seen springs that are not perfectly perpendicular to the axle right from the factory as well as well-intentioned repairs not realizing the problems it can cause in the system if not carefully checked.
    I will certainly check what you mention Geo- The grease mess on the center CRE is likely from my laying under the beast, it not taking grease, the hose wanting to fly off from the pressure, and me trying to wipe it hastily as I was dropping the "F" bomb about it . However, that does not mean what you said is wrong, or not accurate. it is something else to check when I pull it apart once I get some more bolts and nuts for them. Thanks for that though, good for me to check.
    2023 Momentum 397TH w/Gen3 Goosebox
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  8. #28
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    The purpose of bushings in trailer spring suspensions is to reduce friction and prevent binding, which will break the suspension. The standard bushings are not specified for bearing, but arguably should be. Premature wear can be attributed from everything from poorly aligned suspension components, to poor choice of grease, overtorqued spring bolts/wet bolts, too much slop in fitment, not enough gap and on and on. Remember, GD was using the nylon bushings, which barely survived dealer transport. Neverfail bushings were discontinued, because you guessed it, they were constantly failing...

    History lesson, before Open Range was bought and now sitting on Lippert chassis, they actually built on their own and had an excellent sprung suspension with robust fabricated hangers and were stiffened side to side. The gobbling of companies into the current monsters came at the expense of better technology and innovation!

    @msutoad, your CRE on that side seems to have evidence of a bind based on the tracks at the center hanger of grease. You may have you frame brackets all in good alignment, but may have a spring that's cocked. Easy way to tell is to put the units up on the stabilizers and jack that axle evenly and take note if it's causing a bind. I have done a lot of suspension upgrades for fellow owners and I have seen springs that are not perfectly perpendicular to the axle right from the factory as well as well-intentioned repairs not realizing the problems it can cause in the system if not carefully checked.
    how long did your never fails last?
    2021 398M Full Body Paint 8k axles. LRH tires. Disc brakes.
    Two bathrooms, no waiting 155 fresh, 104 black, 104 grey 1860 watts solar.
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  9. #29
    Seasoned Camper msutoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntindog View Post
    how long did your never fails last?
    I have not installed the “never fails” yet. I am waiting on new wet bolts from GDRV and nuts to swap in new bushings. But I have a set of 22 for my tri axle if I want to swap them out. What I am struggling with is them being any stronger than the bronze, but who knows…

    I have a couple things to check based on info from Geo

    Does anyone use those stabilize from equalizer hanger to hanger for side to side stability?

    Thanks
    2023 Momentum 397TH w/Gen3 Goosebox
    2020 GMC Sierra Denali Duramax
    2020 F-450 Limited PowerStroke

  10. #30
    Site Sponsor
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    You know, I was thinking about this. If I find that the Never Fail bushings I will install this spring do not pan out and I need to go back to bronze bushings, I wonder if it would be better to use marine molly lube rather than greasing through the zerk. If the lube were applied liberally prior to installation, I wonder if that wouldn't end up lasting longer than No. 2 grease applied through the zerks regularly? I use molly lube on the boat for rams, gears and such and it has an incredible ability to bond to the metal surfaces, is waterproof, etc. There was a separate thread with lots of discussion about bushings and Never Fails specifically. Some of us ordered them off eBay but this molly lube thing just occurred to me as I was doing some other boat maintenance yesterday. Anyway, just a thinking...
    Chad
    2023 23LDE 965W Solar, Victron Multiplus, Solar Controllers, Cerbo GX, 4x280AH DIY Lithium Batteries, SeeLevel Tank Monitoring, Shock Absorbers (Replaced 2022 22MLE)
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