My CAT Scale Results

[Laurie 1799]

Totally agree. With post 28. It gives the insurance company an out, quite serious if it’s your fault and liability is involved.

[xrated]

I'm not an attorney, nor have I ever played one, nor am I an insurance agent or official, so this advice is worth every penny you paid for it.

I've seen this discussion on every forum that includes people towing trailers, and one statement always comes up sooner or later. Unless you are going down the road in an obviously unsafe manner you are unlikely to be bothered by law enforcement. The problem will come up if you are involved in an accident, and it won't be law enforcement that bothers you. It will be the insurance company. If you are overweight it gives the insurance company an out to not pay for your damage (if you are not the cause of the accident) or to pay for your liability (if you were the cause).

As I said, I'm not an attorney nor an insurance expert. I'd rather not be overloaded in any respect. That said, I need to get my truck and trailer weighed. I'm still rearranging stuff from truck to trailer and from trailer to truck, so any weight taken today may be wrong tomorrow.

I don't believe an insurance company has the right to just "walk away" because you did something reckless or dangerous, or even stupid or _______ (fill in the blank. What they DO have the right to do, is to cancel you and or not renew you afterwards. Then, after being dropped by an insurance company, the battle begins.....for you to find someone that WILL insure you, without donating an arm and a leg, or your oldest child. Can anyone say HIGH RISK INSURANCE Payments?

The second issue could be a civil suit brought against you for knowingly driving/towing overloaded, especially if an accident was a serious one or heaven forbid, a fatality accident. Civil suits and hungry lawyers go hand in hand, and realistically, pretty much anyone can be sued by anyone. There are lawyers that specialize in these types of lawsuits, and even if you are not proven guilty of negligence, recklessness, knowingly and willingly driving overloaded, it's going to cost you some serious money to avoid a civil suit judgement against you. And if you are found guilty, say goodbye to everything you own and have worked for. On the other hand, if you are towing within all the limits of the truck and trailer, as stated by the respective manufacturers, you will likely stand a much better chance of a non judgement, at least in my opinion. Every single truck manufacturer will clearly state in the owner's manual to NEVER exceed the listed capacity ratings for the vehicle. That would include the Payload, the GVWR, GCVWR, FAWR, RAWR, Tire load capacity, etc. If you are in spec of their published ratings, I think it would a lot easier to prove that it was just an accident and not something that you chose to totally disregard the manufacturer's published numbers and capacity ratings. YMMV, so this is just some stuff to think about........or not, but personally, I chose to stay within the listed ratings for my truck and trailer.....why make it easier for them to win a case against you if you are ever involved in a serious accident!

[Casa_Woody]

A few of us were just stating facts

Some quick fact regarding a Ram 2500, 4x4, Quad Cab, Long Bed, Diesel VS the equivalent Ram 3500 SRW:
- same front end components, axle shafts,, axle tubes, brakes rotors, calipers, hubs, bearings, steering linkages.
- same tires/rim packages available on both vehicles
- same engine, transmission, transfer case, drive shafts (front/rear)
- same rear carrier housing, ring/pinion options, carriers, carrier bearings
- same rear axle shafts, rear hubs, bearings, brake rotors, calipers

Differences:
- frame supports for coil springs vs leaf springs. Structurally the same frame design.
- axle tubes: supports for coil springs vs leaf springs
- badging: 2500 vs 3500
- yellow sticker in door: GVWR 10,000lbs vs 12,000lbs (An additional 2000lbs of payload due to the springs)

The real reason the 2500 in rated at 10,000lbs is based on Combined Federal Regulation (CFR) 49.
This states that vehicle under 10,001 lbs are not required to register as commercial vehicles, unless the combined GVWR of the vehicle and towed vehicle (if there is one) exceeds 10,000lbs.
So land landscapers “conducting commerce” in an F150 (GVWR 7500lbs) towing a single axle trailer (GVWR of 5,000lbs) are exceeding the 10,000lb requirement and should be registered as commercial vehicles. Most of them are not.

You need to do what is safe based on the vehicles design. An F150 hauling my camper would be unsafe. The frame, axles, brakes, etc. are not up to the task. The load would most likely damage the vehicle and create an unsafe condition.

I exceed my 10,000lb GVWR by about 1200lbs and have absolutely no issue with it. I believe I have 800lbs to spare. I treat my truck as a 3500 SRW with a 12,000lb GVWR. When I lived in WA State the vehicle was even registered at 12,000lbs. Just pay the extra fees.

[NB Canada]

Some quick fact regarding a Ram 2500, 4x4, Quad Cab, Long Bed, Diesel VS the equivalent Ram 3500 SRW:
- same front end components, axle shafts,, axle tubes, brakes rotors, calipers, hubs, bearings, steering linkages.
- same tires/rim packages available on both vehicles
- same engine, transmission, transfer case, drive shafts (front/rear)
- same rear carrier housing, ring/pinion options, carriers, carrier bearings
- same rear axle shafts, rear hubs, bearings, brake rotors, calipers

Differences:
- frame supports for coil springs vs leaf springs. Structurally the same frame design.
- axle tubes: supports for coil springs vs leaf springs
- badging: 2500 vs 3500
- yellow sticker in door: GVWR 10,000lbs vs 12,000lbs (An additional 2000lbs of payload due to the springs)

The real reason the 2500 in rated at 10,000lbs is based on Combined Federal Regulation (CFR) 49.
This states that vehicle under 10,001 lbs are not required to register as commercial vehicles, unless the combined GVWR of the vehicle and towed vehicle (if there is one) exceeds 10,000lbs.
So land landscapers “conducting commerce” in an F150 (GVWR 7500lbs) towing a single axle trailer (GVWR of 5,000lbs) are exceeding the 10,000lb requirement and should be registered as commercial vehicles. Most of them are not.

You need to do what is safe based on the vehicles design. An F150 hauling my camper would be unsafe. The frame, axles, brakes, etc. are not up to the task. The load would most likely damage the vehicle and create an unsafe condition.

I exceed my 10,000lb GVWR by about 1200lbs and have absolutely no issue with it. I believe I have 800lbs to spare. I treat my truck as a 3500 SRW with a 12,000lb GVWR. When I lived in WA State the vehicle was even registered at 12,000lbs. Just pay the extra fees.

So I was right
Also the OP has a GMC not a Ram

[Casa_Woody]

So there isn’t a limit to what you should tow with a particular vehicle?

Unfortunately it all comes down to common sense. And that is based on one persons opinion vs anothers.
You can strap a king size mattress to the top of a Smart Car and drive down the road. As long as it does not fly off, what regulations have you broken? Doing so does not pass my common sense test but will pass many others.
I run my truck well over the listed GVWR. For my truck, it passes my common sense test. Many other may look at it and say I'm nuts for doing so. Again...opinons.
Speed limits while towing....I drive 65 Max. Others well over the posted speed limit.

Bottom line: Let's all be safe so we can enjoy a cold beverage of choice at our final destination.

[Casa_Woody]

So I was right
Also the OP has a GMC not a Ram

I can't speak for all makes and models. Just for what I have. Do some homework on your vehilce make. That way you are well informed with facts and can make your decisions based on those facts. Ignorance is not bliss and ignorance is a leading cause of accidents.

[terryriddle]

Hi guys.
Sorry this started a debate. That wasn't my intention. I just wanted to show that even though you assume that you are within your limits, you may not be.

I would imagine that the authorities would be more interested in GAWR than cargo capacity but I'm and not in a position to state that as fact.

I do want to make it clear that I am not trying to justify towing overloaded. I just wanted to show some actual numbers. In hind sight, I can see that I completely missed that I was over my GVWR on the truck. To be honest, I was really more interested in the total cargo weight I was putting into the truck and if I had exceeded my cargo capacity.

What's interesting to me is that this model trailer was sold as a "Lite" fifth wheel. This model was discontinued shortly after we bought it. We were looking at the 303 but the advertised pin weight was higher and so we backed away from that model.

Our plan was to move to Solitude in a few years (when we retire)and a one ton dually. After my findings (and your comments) we may need to upgrade the truck sooner than planned.

Again, Thank you all for your comments and concern. It's what I like so much about this forum.

It is really all about safety. I had an F250 short bed diesel and with my 2020 260RD fifth wheel, I would be overweight once my wife and other items were added to the RV, etc. I moved to a F350 dually long bed and the feeling of the drive was significantly better. My brother once said that when you are overweight and traveling at 65 miles per hour and blow a tire, will the truck maintain control or will the trailer take over control. Simply a safety issue that I respect. I want my truck level when the RV is attached and I want it to take control in an emergency situation. My F250 would not have provided that, just my opinion. But I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[Boogiejack75]

On our way out of town today I stopped at a CAT Scale to finally get some actual weights on my truck and trailer.
Several have shared their results so I decided to do the same.
I used the 'Weigh My Truck' app and it made the process very simple.


We first weighed the truck & trailer together (with the wife and I onboard and with the truck full of fuel)

I dropped the trailer and weighed just the truck alone. (again with the wife and I onboard and with the truck full of fuel)

BTW I had 25 gallons of water in the fresh water tank and both grey and black tanks were empty.

When we arrived at out camp site I plugged the results into my spreadsheet and here we are.

Attachment 46043

In a nutshell we are right at cargo capacity and near the GVWR of the trailer. The trailer's weight surprised me a little. Didn't think we carried that much but numbers don't lie.

Thank you to all who previously encouraged me to hit the scales for the actual numbers.

I hope these results are helpful in some way.

Safe travels!

If all of your numbers in your sheet are correct, it doesn't look like you are over the axle ratings for your truck.

I had an F250 diesel short bed and towed a 12000 lb 5th wheel. 2340 or so payload for the truck. I was 600 lbs over axle rating, which rating was very similar to yours if I remember correctly. I researched the numbers for the axle Ford was using and was loaded to about 2/3 of the axle rating. The factory payload sticker was based on 70 psi tire pressure (I believe). The tires were rated 3750 per tire @ 80 psi. I was good there at 80 psi. You need to check the tire load tables for your situation. My 250 pulled and stopped fine, but I was always nervous about payload when towing. I am not justifying towing overloaded, just relating my personal experience.

We ended up trading on a Solitude and a 350 dually. Solitudes are solidly in dually territory IMO.

You are probably marginally OK with the 2500, but still technically overloaded.

You don't need a dually with your current rig, but you should consider one if a Solitude is in your future.

Good luck!

[Wandering5thwheelers]

Pretty simple math reveals, as NB stated, you're truck is overloaded by 600 lbs. GVWR = 10,000. Actual weight on the truck by itself and no trailer....8540 lbs. Truck weight 8540 lbs PLUS Pin weight of 2060 lbs = 10,600 lbs, which is 600 lbs over the GVWR of the truck.

I am trying desperately to understand this post as I plan on doing the same with my truck and trailer soon, weighing them that is. I get the point of weighing both, then the truck by itself. What I don’t understand is how do you figure out the weight of your cargo, if you’re trying to get accurate numbers. I am assuming to get a true truck weight with a full load of fuel would be to empty everything else out of it and weigh it that way??
So confused!!

[Hoopy Frood]

The way I did it was weigh the truck and trailer right after we picked it up so I would know the weight of the trailer before we've loaded it up with "stuff". After that any weight gain was stuff we've loaded. And actually I've never been too concerned with what's loaded. We're overloaded on the trailer GVWR, but not all that much so I don't worry about it.