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  1. #61
    Site Team traveldawg's Avatar
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    Alright folks - time to settle down!

    If someone thinks it’s easier or less expensive another way other than outright purchasing a commercial solution then that is there prerogative to do so.

    Just because some of us spend the extra $$$ for support, ease, or are not technical is no reason to think we did something wrong.

    Move on……. The thread is about charging the darn things - not which are better (or who is right or wrong).
    Last edited by traveldawg; 01-21-2022 at 11:41 AM.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by traveldawg View Post
    Alright folks - time to settle down!

    If someone thinks it’s easier or less expensive another way other than outright purchasing a commercial solution then that is there prerogative to do so.

    Just because some of us spend the extra $$$ for support, ease, or are not technical is no reason to think we did something wrong.

    Move on……. The thread is about charging the darn things - not which are better (or who is right or wrong).
    Yep....that is a hijack for sure.
    thanks for the time out.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrated View Post
    Guys, I appreciate the responses, but just for clarification......I don't want or need a combination Inverter/Charger. I have absolutely zero use for an inverter on the trailer. I strictly looking for a combination of converter/charger. I'm just have a hard time finding something that suits me because I don't want the boost or bulk charge voltage to be as high as most of them are for the LFP batteries. I would ideally like to find something that either had user adjustable out voltages or something with no more that 14V boost/bulk and then drop down to around 13.5 for the absorption voltage. That voltage would be around 3.4 volts/per cell and to me, that would be ideal.
    I don’t know if you have this information but WAFO 9855 comes in a lithium series and will charge both lithium and acid batteries. Just need the switch to change it back and forth.
    I apologize if this has already been mentioned and I missed it
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  4. #64
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by secjcc View Post
    I don’t know if you have this information but WAFO 9855 comes in a lithium series and will charge both lithium and acid batteries. Just need the switch to change it back and forth.
    I apologize if this has already been mentioned and I missed it
    I did see that one, but thanks for posting just in case. That one, like many of the LFP battery chargers have charging profiles that are in my opinion....to high on bulk/boost and on the absorption charge voltage. I see absolutely zero need to output 14.6 volts on the boost voltage (they do this for quicker charging). The absorption voltage of 13.6 or 3.4/cell is what many consider to be 98-99% fully charged...and for a LFP battery to sit at that voltage is detrimental to the battery life. Part of the issues for me, is that I'm not full times and thus the battery would be sitting for weeks sometimes with the 13.6 on it....unless I went out and manually turned it off or opened the battery master switch. This is where a fully adjustable charger would be great, and of course that adjustability would be available with an Inverter/charger.....just on for a converter/charger.
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  5. #65
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrated View Post
    From almost everyone over on the DIYsolarforums advice, do not ever use the BMS to control things like that. It is there as a protection device for the battery. I ask that very same question several weeks ago and I wouldn't say they "yelled at me" or anything like that, but was told that is a bad practice. That's the reason I'm not pursuing that path.
    Scanning thru this thread, I realized just how much your thinking has evolved..... From thinking that a stock WFCO would do a great job, to now being concerned about a tenth or two of a volt at float. That is kinda cool.

    But I think you are now over thinking this to a fault. Lithium batteries do not like to be stored at 100% charge. 40-60% is what Battle born recommends. So if you follow that, then your batteries will never spend much time in the float stage... So the standard Lithium convertors will work fine. Just make sure that you have a disconnect switch that really disconnects everything. and disconnect the batteries when in storage.
    Last edited by huntindog; 02-01-2022 at 03:55 PM.
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  6. #66
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntindog View Post
    Scanning thru this thread, I realized just how much your thinking has evolved..... From thinking that a stock WFCO would do a great job, to now being concerned about a tenth or two of a volt at float. That is kinda cool.

    But I think you are now over thinking this to a fault. Lithium batteries do not like to be stored at 100% charge. 40-60% is what Battle born recommends. So if you follow that, then your batteries will never spend much time in the float stage... So the standard Lithium convertors will work fine. Just make sure that you have a disconnect switch that really disconnects everything. and disconnect the batteries when in storage.
    LOL....you have a good point there, I appreciate your compliment. I was thinking about that very same thing a couple of days ago. Back in Oct. 2021, on a scale of 1-10 about what I knew about LFP batteries could quite possibly have been in the negative numbers....maybe "0". Having done a lot of reading and many different opinions, as well as a very, very long Private message with one of the fellows over on the DIYsolarforums.....plus a phone call that lasted a bit over two hours, I have learned a LOT.....relatively speaking. I'm just amazed and sometimes still shake my head at the level of knowledge over there will some of the members. Presently, my 1-10 scale is likely in the 3-4 stage and I think I now know enough to successfully build my own battery.

    A couple of tenths of a volt in the LFP world is a lot.....and most of the dedicated LFP chargers are strictly two stage.....Boost and absorption. And from what I've seen through a lot of research and checking on 5 or 6 different brands.....either the Boost voltage is too high or the absorption is too high, or both are too high. Ideally, I would love to find a dedicated converter/charger that can be adjusted by the end user....Me. My settings would likely be 14.2 or 14.3 for the Boost.....and 13.4 or 13.5 for the absorption. I don't care if the battery charges in 2 hrs.....I prefer lower and slower and to not have the absorption voltage so high that the battery is at 98-99%. My install will include a master 300A Blue Seas switch that will totally kill anything battery output related.....and I very likely will have to use it. I even bought a 12V 200W heater to be able to drain the battery down to a 50%-60% SOC when I get ready to winterize. I don't have an inverter, so it's not like I can just turn one one and hit it with a 120V load to suck down some of the battery charge.

    Probably to a fault sometimes, I am somewhat of a perfectionist, and since I have been a Journeyman Electrician my whole adult life, the electrical stuff even more so. Sometimes it drives my wife crazy, but she has slowly learned that there are some things I'm just not going to accept as mediocre.
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  7. #67
    Site Sponsor SolarPoweredRV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrated View Post
    Guys, I appreciate the responses, but just for clarification......I don't want or need a combination Inverter/Charger. I have absolutely zero use for an inverter on the trailer. I strictly looking for a combination of converter/charger. I'm just have a hard time finding something that suits me because I don't want the boost or bulk charge voltage to be as high as most of them are for the LFP batteries. I would ideally like to find something that either had user adjustable out voltages or something with no more that 14V boost/bulk and then drop down to around 13.5 for the absorption voltage. That voltage would be around 3.4 volts/per cell and to me, that would be ideal.
    I think you should look into the Victron line of Chargers.
    This one: BPC123047102 is a 30 amp charger with fully programmable voltages and various charging profiles. It is controlled via BlueTooth and multiple chargers can be strung together to reach your desired charging amperage.

    Here is a Link: https://shop.pkys.com/ip22-charger-12-30-1

    One note: while this charger has multiple stages, you can set the voltages to the various stages at the same voltage to negate any actual change in charging if the charger switches to a different stage. For example: in my Inverter/Charger I have set Bulk and absorption to the same setting while I have set the Float voltage 0.02v lower, this works well for my system.
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  8. #68
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrated View Post
    LOL....you have a good point there, I appreciate your compliment. I was thinking about that very same thing a couple of days ago. Back in Oct. 2021, on a scale of 1-10 about what I knew about LFP batteries could quite possibly have been in the negative numbers....maybe "0". Having done a lot of reading and many different opinions, as well as a very, very long Private message with one of the fellows over on the DIYsolarforums.....plus a phone call that lasted a bit over two hours, I have learned a LOT.....relatively speaking. I'm just amazed and sometimes still shake my head at the level of knowledge over there will some of the members. Presently, my 1-10 scale is likely in the 3-4 stage and I think I now know enough to successfully build my own battery.

    A couple of tenths of a volt in the LFP world is a lot.....and most of the dedicated LFP chargers are strictly two stage.....Boost and absorption. And from what I've seen through a lot of research and checking on 5 or 6 different brands.....either the Boost voltage is too high or the absorption is too high, or both are too high. Ideally, I would love to find a dedicated converter/charger that can be adjusted by the end user....Me. My settings would likely be 14.2 or 14.3 for the Boost.....and 13.4 or 13.5 for the absorption. I don't care if the battery charges in 2 hrs.....I prefer lower and slower and to not have the absorption voltage so high that the battery is at 98-99%. My install will include a master 300A Blue Seas switch that will totally kill anything battery output related.....and I very likely will have to use it. I even bought a 12V 200W heater to be able to drain the battery down to a 50%-60% SOC when I get ready to winterize. I don't have an inverter, so it's not like I can just turn one one and hit it with a 120V load to suck down some of the battery charge.

    Probably to a fault sometimes, I am somewhat of a perfectionist, and since I have been a Journeyman Electrician my whole adult life, the electrical stuff even more so. Sometimes it drives my wife crazy, but she has slowly learned that there are some things I'm just not going to accept as mediocre.
    In any endeavour the first 95 -98% of performance comes relatively easy and cost effectively. Getting that last bit of performance is many times harder and expensive. It doesn't matter what you are doing, building a HiFi system, racing cars, breeding dogs etc. etc.
    Unless one is in a competition endeavour where getting that last bit is needed to win,,,,then a decision must be made as to where to stop on the quest to perfection. That point will be different for each person. Indeed there are areas that are more important for myself than others to basically blow money and effort into, so I get it.... But I do think you are at that point now...The little bit you are chasing IMO just doesn't amount to much... I say this not to discourage you, as this is your "thing",but to let others that read this understand just where they may be in the process of building their own systems.
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  9. #69
    Seasoned Camper Scramjet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrated View Post
    LOL....you have a good point there, I appreciate your compliment. I was thinking about that very same thing a couple of days ago. Back in Oct. 2021, on a scale of 1-10 about what I knew about LFP batteries could quite possibly have been in the negative numbers....maybe "0". Having done a lot of reading and many different opinions, as well as a very, very long Private message with one of the fellows over on the DIYsolarforums.....plus a phone call that lasted a bit over two hours, I have learned a LOT.....relatively speaking. I'm just amazed and sometimes still shake my head at the level of knowledge over there will some of the members. Presently, my 1-10 scale is likely in the 3-4 stage and I think I now know enough to successfully build my own battery.

    A couple of tenths of a volt in the LFP world is a lot.....and most of the dedicated LFP chargers are strictly two stage.....Boost and absorption. And from what I've seen through a lot of research and checking on 5 or 6 different brands.....either the Boost voltage is too high or the absorption is too high, or both are too high. Ideally, I would love to find a dedicated converter/charger that can be adjusted by the end user....Me. My settings would likely be 14.2 or 14.3 for the Boost.....and 13.4 or 13.5 for the absorption. I don't care if the battery charges in 2 hrs.....I prefer lower and slower and to not have the absorption voltage so high that the battery is at 98-99%. My install will include a master 300A Blue Seas switch that will totally kill anything battery output related.....and I very likely will have to use it. I even bought a 12V 200W heater to be able to drain the battery down to a 50%-60% SOC when I get ready to winterize. I don't have an inverter, so it's not like I can just turn one one and hit it with a 120V load to suck down some of the battery charge.

    Probably to a fault sometimes, I am somewhat of a perfectionist, and since I have been a Journeyman Electrician my whole adult life, the electrical stuff even more so. Sometimes it drives my wife crazy, but she has slowly learned that there are some things I'm just not going to accept as mediocre.
    Your line of thinking and locking into some specific details that you wanted is how I got to my peculiar system setup. Bigger batteries require more charging current to catch up each day when charging off generator and/or solar. I could have gone to a Victron Multi Plus that would do everything and more. At that time the Multi Plus 2 was not yet available. Now, that would be my idea of the "everything" solution. That is not what I wanted. I wanted a low cost, compact and lighter weight programmable charger with 2kw inverter but wanted higher charging currents to reduce the generator run times. I didn't exactly need the inverter but thought it would be nice to have. The Xantrex XC 2080 fit my requirements. I am not a fan boy, but it works well for me and is well built. They are used in the marine world too. Some others may fit the bill at a similar cost too. I paid around $700.

    I am running one circuit through the inverter just so I have some specific 120v appliances when boondocking or on the road. I picked one circuit on my rig to invert that would run the fridge, and an outlet for the Nutribullet, toaster or Instant Pot. There are a few other plugs on the same circuit for charging laptops, the vacuum and (don't laugh) the electric blanket for my freeze babies (German Shorthaired Pointers). Charging laptops and the vacuum while on the road is a nice thing to have.

    I also kept my factory WFCO 9855 inverter for additional charging which adds 55a to the 80a if needed. I don't use it often but wouldn't hesitate to use it for storage as it keeps Lithium batteries at a lower state of charge which as you noted they like. It also adds a backup way to charge "just in case". So to summarize how I got to this solution: light weight, low-cost, compact inverter/charger, one circuit energized if I need it, backup factory converter which can be used for storage, fully programmable profile for both inverting and charging. NOT a Victron but half the cost.

    Don't take this the wrong way. There are many ways to skin a cat. I think Victron equipment is the top tier but not what I wanted. I exclusively used Victron equipment for my smart shunt and my solar charge controller as they are well engineered and have robust design.

    Just trying to add another perspective.

    P.S. By the time you use up the life cycle of your batteries it will be 10 years and better stuff will be out there. The rate of change for solar, lithium etc. is improving daily and it is a great time to play with this stuff!
    Last edited by Scramjet; 02-02-2022 at 09:26 AM.

  10. #70
    Site Team traveldawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrated View Post
    LOL....you have a good point there, I appreciate your compliment. I was thinking about that very same thing a couple of days ago. Back in Oct. 2021, on a scale of 1-10 about what I knew about LFP batteries could quite possibly have been in the negative numbers....maybe "0". Having done a lot of reading and many different opinions, as well as a very, very long Private message with one of the fellows over on the DIYsolarforums.....plus a phone call that lasted a bit over two hours, I have learned a LOT.....relatively speaking. I'm just amazed and sometimes still shake my head at the level of knowledge over there will some of the members. Presently, my 1-10 scale is likely in the 3-4 stage and I think I now know enough to successfully build my own battery.

    A couple of tenths of a volt in the LFP world is a lot.....and most of the dedicated LFP chargers are strictly two stage.....Boost and absorption. And from what I've seen through a lot of research and checking on 5 or 6 different brands.....either the Boost voltage is too high or the absorption is too high, or both are too high. Ideally, I would love to find a dedicated converter/charger that can be adjusted by the end user....Me. My settings would likely be 14.2 or 14.3 for the Boost.....and 13.4 or 13.5 for the absorption. I don't care if the battery charges in 2 hrs.....I prefer lower and slower and to not have the absorption voltage so high that the battery is at 98-99%. My install will include a master 300A Blue Seas switch that will totally kill anything battery output related.....and I very likely will have to use it. I even bought a 12V 200W heater to be able to drain the battery down to a 50%-60% SOC when I get ready to winterize. I don't have an inverter, so it's not like I can just turn one one and hit it with a 120V load to suck down some of the battery charge.

    Probably to a fault sometimes, I am somewhat of a perfectionist, and since I have been a Journeyman Electrician my whole adult life, the electrical stuff even more so. Sometimes it drives my wife crazy, but she has slowly learned that there are some things I'm just not going to accept as mediocre.
    Look in to Xantrex Freedom Inverter/Chargers. They are programmable for both absorption and float charges. I'd generally add that your battery manufacturer can give you the proper voltages for both those stages. The bulk charging puts out a set voltage (don't recall what it is) but the current will be the max until it tapers and reaches the absorption charge. You can pull the manuals off their web site for specifics.
    Larry KE4DMG
    2022 F-350 KRU SRW LB - Airlift 5000+, ForScan, 37 RDS Aux Tank,
    2019 310GK-R - Sailuns; MorRyde IS; Disc Brakes; 20K Reese Goosebox
    Search kalakamods for my mods


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