Sawdust, sawdust, sawdust

**Dadeo6472** · 05-07-2022, 10:42 AM

The lousy warranty and tons of garbage left behind by those building our trailers reminds me of the rattles and headaches that came with every new car built by the big 3 until Toyota and Honda invaded in the late 1970's. What I have found in mine is disturbing: sawdust in overhead puck led lights (which do get quite warm); sawdust piles in the furnace intake; loose screws everywhere around the furnace and stove, including several that had started self drilling themselves into the furnace; drilled out saw holes left behind everywhere; a spaghetti mess of unlabeled wiring behind the converter, a complete FM/TV antenna mounting kit left under the stove; kinked water lines; a shower drain that won't stay connected; a failed thermostat on a 1 year old water heater; the furnace duct that was supposed to heat the area under the floor but was found heating the refrigerator instead; and, unprotected wiring to the trailer tongue jack that was sliced where it passed thru an unprotected hole in the trailer frame (whose fuse didn't blow because it was located next to the jack and not next to the battery).

In my trailer there is enough tangled wiring behind the converter to wire a complete second trailer. I suspect that Grand Designed used the wiring kit/plan from a larger trailer for my 18RBE and simply dropped the excess back there. None of the wiring is properly secured either. It's such a mess that I am going to rewire before our next trip. I also have to figure out why the water line to our sink is freezing (at 25 degrees) when the heat is on and we are using the trailer -- on a trailer which was supposedly built for 4 season use.

Oh, and then there are the (2) Chinese propane regulator recalls and the months it took to get the replacements. Please, can someone in Indiana learn from this experience and stop sourcing critical parts and equipment from China?

Our trailer was built in early 2019, well before Covid, and from what I've heard, the quality is pretty typical of all the stuff coming out of Elkhart, Indiana. So, this is probably the only RV we will buy that is made by a company associated with Elkhart, Indiana.

It's too bad because it's a nice layout and it's comfortable. But when its time to buy another I refuse to buy something where the wiring to the trailer jack nearly starts a fire under the propane tanks, especially under a defective propane regulator!

**jleonard** · 05-07-2022, 02:16 PM

Please, can someone in Indiana learn from this experience and stop sourcing critical parts and equipment from China?

That probably won't happen. I spent years in the manufacturing engineering business for automotive and industrial. "Strategic sourcing" managers/directors get huge bonuses for sourcing cost saving products from overseas. Its a way of life at the moment.

**Redapple63** · 05-07-2022, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by jleonard

That probably won't happen. I spent years in the manufacturing engineering business for automotive and industrial. "Strategic sourcing" managers/directors get huge bonuses for sourcing cost saving products from overseas. Its a way of life at the moment.

Absolutely agreed. It is not about top quality, it is about the balance of cost and good enough. If the mfgers went for top quality we would not be able to afford these things.

**Dadeo6472** · 05-08-2022, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Redapple63

Absolutely agreed. It is not about top quality, it is about the balance of cost and good enough. If the mfgers went for top quality we would not be able to afford these things.

Something has to change in this industry.

We don't need "top quality". How about something like the "average quality" (as ranked by Consumer Reports) of the Ram 1500 I pull my trailer with? I'd take the quality of my average (and American made) 2009 Sea Hunt boat.

I expected to drop up to $35,000 for a high quality small trailer, only to find that nobody makes one. What I found was that spending more wouldn't buy more quality, it only bought "more". And frankly I didn't want "more".

I asked people who maintained these things for a living if paying more really bought better quality. The answer was a resounding NO! But there was some agreement that Grand Design was as good as it got (in 2019). Even so, the quality of what I got was a disappointment, for all the reasons in my previous post.

Do people really prefer cheap and cheaply made? Is that what you all really want?

Isn't there some middle ground where a company takes 10% more time and charges 10% more, to at least give the workers time to clean up after themselves and double check their work?

How about standardizing designs and features? I can't believe how many different lines and models Grand Design makes compared to how many actual units built. There are at least 10 different brands and at least 50 different trailer models made by this company, in an industry that makes about 500,000 a year. The marine industry doesn't try to do this. If the car industry did this GM would have 100 different brands and a thousand different models. Instead they have like 4 or 5 (Chevy, GMC, Caddie, Buick) and Toyota has 2 brands.

The RV industry could learn a lot from autos and marine industry. Something has to change in this industry.

**Redapple63** · 05-08-2022, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Dadeo6472

Something has to change in this industry.

We don't need "top quality". How about something like the "average quality" (as ranked by Consumer Reports) of the Ram 1500 I pull my trailer with? I'd take the quality of my average (and American made) 2009 Sea Hunt boat.

I expected to drop up to $35,000 for a high quality small trailer, only to find that nobody makes one. What I found was that spending more wouldn't buy more quality, it only bought "more". And frankly I didn't want "more".

I asked people who maintained these things for a living if paying more really bought better quality. The answer was a resounding NO! But there was some agreement that Grand Design was as good as it got (in 2019). Even so, the quality of what I got was a disappointment, for all the reasons in my previous post.

Do people really prefer cheap and cheaply made? Is that what you all really want?

Isn't there some middle ground where a company takes 10% more time and charges 10% more, to at least give the workers time to clean up after themselves and double check their work?

How about standardizing designs and features? I can't believe how many different lines and models Grand Design makes compared to how many actual units built. There are at least 10 different brands and at least 50 different trailer models made by this company, in an industry that makes about 500,000 a year. The marine industry doesn't try to do this. If the car industry did this GM would have 100 different brands and a thousand different models. Instead they have like 4 or 5 (Chevy, GMC, Caddie, Buick) and Toyota has 2 brands.

The RV industry could learn a lot from autos and marine industry. Something has to change in this industry.

I hear you Doug, until we stop buying what they are making, it’s not going to change. What the market will bear. Like I said balance between cost and “good enough”. We as buyers have the power to change that. As long as we keep buying, they have absolutely no reason to change.

Bill