Truck silliness and F250 diesel weights

[backtrack2015]

This is my 1st post and I though I might share some real world numbers.
First of all the truck is a 2019 f350 superduty (SRW) and I've add a Titan fuel tank (55gl.) ,air bags, B&W companion slider,Hellwig sway bar, and a retractable tonneau cover.With a full tank of fuel,myself and the wife in the vehicle along with the other mentioned add on's the CAT scale numbers are ;
steer axle 5120
drive axle 3840
gross weight 8960

When I picked up the toy hauler I scaled it on the way home and here are the numbers with the above mentioned add on's and an EMPTY 351m;
steer axle 5180
drive axle 6660
trailer axle 11920
gross weight 23760
pin weight of 2820 with an empty trailer.

With the 351M,100gl water,2018 RZR xp1000 in the garage,food,clothes,and 15gl fuel for the generator here are the CAT scale numbers;
steer axle 5120
drive axle 6420
trailer axle 15340
gross weight 26880
My calculations brings me to the conclusion that the pin weight is 2600 #

The GD website lists the GAWR as 7000 for the trailer (x2). It looks like you're over the combined axle capacity by 1340 lbs. Yours may have different axles? I just wanted to flag this in addition to the GVWR (mentioned by ovetaxed) if you weren't aware.

[Overtaxed]

It looks like you're over the combined axle capacity by 1340 lbs

Yeah, I noticed that, you've got 15,340 on axles rated for 14K. That is/was one of my big concerns with the "big double axles". It's real easy to get over the limit (for the axles) on them. Your trailer scaled at almost 12K dry, leaving you a little over 2K for stuff. 100G of water weighs 700 lbs, fuel (if you fill them both) another couple 100. You fill both those tanks, you're quickly into the "no more than a few 100 lbs of stuff" to keep from going over the axle ratings on the trailer. Now, do 7K axles self destruct with 8K (or 10, ask me how I know) on them? No, they do not. But still, you might want to drop off some cinder blocks before taking off next time.

It's funny, the more I read on these things, the more I wonder, if you just wait for a large 5er to go by and point at it randomly, what are the chances that SOMETHING isn't overweight. GVWR, axles on the truck, wheels/tires on the truck, axles on the trailer, wheels/tires on the trailer, some yellow sticker somewhere with some limit on it? Anyone hazard a guess?

I was on Craigslist today just browsing around at other 5'ers for sale, and about 1/2 the pictures had a view of the tow vehicle. I didn't see a single duallie in the 10 or so I cared enough to look at, all "big boys". Including 2 with triple axles (one Raptor, can't remember the other) hooked up to.. You guessed it.. SRW 250/350 (couldn't see in that picture which truck it was).

[nuggett]

backtrack 2015,
According to the brochure I have for the momentum 351M it states that the GVWR for it is 16,500 with 2 axles rated at 7000# (14000#).How does that compute ? If that's the case then the trailer is over by 2500# from the factory correct ?
factory UVW 13600#
GVWR 16500 #
Someone chime in, I'm thinking that the UVW (13600#) is the weight of the trailer from the factory and the GVwR (16500 ) is the weight that the trailer can handle when loaded.

[Overtaxed]

backtrack 2015,
According to the brochure I have for the momentum 351M it states that the GVWR for it is 16,500 with 2 axles rated at 7000# (14000#).How does that compute ? If that's the case then the trailer is over by 2500# from the factory correct ?
factory UVW 13600#
GVWR 16500 #
Someone chime in, I'm thinking that the UVW (13600#) is the weight of the trailer from the factory and the GVwR (16500 ) is the weight that the trailer can handle when loaded.

The "missing weight" is the pin weight. So 14,000 on the axles, 2500 on the pin, 16,500 GVWR. It's really tight on this model, a lot of times, you'll see a triple axle (21K of axle) rated at 20K GVWR. But it's common in the industry, for lots of kinds of trailer. I have a 16 gooseneck dump trailer that has 14K of axles under it, same math, 14K on the axles, 2K on the pin.

[backtrack2015]

backtrack 2015,
According to the brochure I have for the momentum 351M it states that the GVWR for it is 16,500 with 2 axles rated at 7000# (14000#).How does that compute ? If that's the case then the trailer is over by 2500# from the factory correct ?
factory UVW 13600#
GVWR 16500 #
Someone chime in, I'm thinking that the UVW (13600#) is the weight of the trailer from the factory and the GVwR (16500 ) is the weight that the trailer can handle when loaded.

You are correct that the UVW is an estimate of the unloaded trailer weight from the factory. The GVWR is the maximum allowable trailer weight according to Grand Design. This maximum weight is supported by the trailer axles (14K rating) and the truck (via the pin weight). Unfortunately your trailer weighed 14800 when empty and 17920 fully loaded (according to your scaled values).

[Marauderer]

I am stopping by the scales on the way to the campground and will get the real deal on weight today. I will post the results after we get set up at the campground.

Lots of variants and it sure looks like government intervention in coming up with the numbers they do.

[nuggett]

You are correct that the UVW is an estimate of the unloaded trailer weight from the factory. The GVWR is the maximum allowable trailer weight according to Grand Design. This maximum weight is supported by the trailer axles (14K rating) and the truck (via the pin weight). Unfortunately your trailer weighed 14800 when empty and 17920 fully loaded (according to your scaled values).

I spoke with Lippert this morning and you do NOT combine the empty trailer weight or full trailer weight with the pin weight to get the total axle weight. The pin weight is supported by the truck,not the trailer axles.The pin weight and truck weight DO come into play for an overall combined weight.
Empty trailer axle weight 11920 (-2080)
Loaded trailer axle weight 15340 (+1340)
I normally don't travel with water and fuel like it was weighed,that was a "lets ck" test.
The pin weight is part of the payload on the truck,then you add it all up for a total combined weight.

[backtrack2015]

I spoke with Lippert this morning and you do NOT combine the empty trailer weight or full trailer weight with the pin weight to get the total axle weight. The pin weight is supported by the truck,not the trailer axles.The pin weight and truck weight DO come into play for an overall combined weight.
Empty trailer axle weight 11920 (-2080)
Loaded trailer axle weight 15340 (+1340)
I normally don't travel with water and fuel like it was weighed,that was a "lets ck" test.
The pin weight is part of the payload on the truck,then you add it all up for a total combined weight.

So I think we agree here. Weight on trailer axles + pin weight = total trailer weight.

Your truck (loaded ready to tow, but without trailer attached):
8960 lbs.

Your new unloaded trailer:
11920 on axles + 2880 pin weight = 14800 total trailer weight.
GCVW = 8960 (truck) + 14800 (trailer) = 23760 lbs
When empty, trailer is well under the rated axle capacity (14K) and under its GVWR of 16500.

Your loaded trailer:
15340 on axles + 2580 pin weight = 17920 total trailer weight.
GCVW = 8960 (truck) + 17920 (trailer) = 26880 lbs
When loaded, trailer is over axle capacity by 1340 lbs and over GVWR by 1420 lbs.

It's great that you weighed it fully loaded as a worst-case. Traveling with empty tanks (B/G/Fresh/Fuel) should get you closer.

[Marauderer]

My current weight with the 5er empty with 1/3 fresh water tank is:

Ft axle 4380
Rr axle 5600
Trl axles 8920
Gross 18900

I am running Nitto Terra Grappler G2 17/285 E rated at 3195 lbs So, I can go to 6390 lbs on the rear without exceeding the tire weight. The 2500HD runs the same axle and bearings on the rear that the 3500 does. Hence the yellow sticker syndrome is there.

Truck empty:

Fr axle 4400 lbs
Rr axle 3480 lbs

Weighed my rig today almost got everything in it. Not much more to add. Black water tank about 1/3 full, 13 gal at 8lb/gal

Fr Axle 4500 lb
Rr Axle 5880 lb
Trailer 9560 lb

Gross 19940 lb

Door sticker:
GVWF 4670 lb
GVWR 9200 lb

Then it says go to owners manual for additional info.

So the scales says I am good to go and legal to boot.

Still tows graet. Much better than with the travel Trailer.

Thanks for everyone's input

[Markb777]

[QUOTE=Overtaxed;269074]100G of water weighs 700 lbs,

Actually 1 gallon of water weighs 8.34 lbs so that 700 just went to 840 lbs.