Dealer says truck is undersized and requires a waiver to sell it to me

[The Bone]

Where do you get the info that the empty weight includes fuel and a 150# driver?

I had to go and look and found I was wrong on the driver. I thought I read that somewhere. I also thought 150# was kind of light because I weighed 180 in high school. LOL But the rest is correct. I may have read that in the manual and yes I read mine cover to cover. LOL

[Sarge33Army]

I had to go and look and found I was wrong on the driver. I thought I read that somewhere. I also thought 150# was kind of light because I weighed 180 in high school. LOL But the rest is correct. I may have read that in the manual and yes I read mine cover to cover. LOL

Google search found multiple sites explaining the towing requirements of SAE-J2807. The rating standard includes driver and passenger at 150-lbs each and 70-lbs for a hitch. (However, I couldn't find anything specifying if this 370-lbs is or isn't part of the payload rating.) Fifth Wheel Street has a good article with details at "fifthwheelst.com/SAE-J2807-Tow-Tests".

Note: SAE.org shows a revision to SAE-J2807 posted 13 FEB 2020. It costs $83 to download/access...

[boyscout]

The difference between the SRW and DRW is $2800 but it's not the money. We will be traveling maybe 4 or 5 months a year max. The rest of the time, it will be a daily driver for myself and my wife, towning nothing heavier than my fishing boat. If at all possible, I rather not go DRW. I do not deny that the DRW would be more stable but as long as the SRW is not unsafe, I'd rather stick with SRW.

I’m sorry to complicate your thinking but must tell you that this is precisely the argument that led me into an F350 SRW. I went in to buy an F450 and the sales rep convinced me with the daily-driver argument that the 350 made more sense.

For the first year when we had a small Reflection (320MKS) and traveled mostly in flat-land Florida I congratulated myself on the decision. Since trading for a Solitude (only a little heavier, but somehow feels much heavier in curves and over bad bridge transitions) and since traveling in less-flat terrain I’ve kicked myself MANY times for making that choice. IMO our truck is just enough truck for our trailer.

The F450 is easily capable of handling any GD trailer - more so than its rating numbers suggest - in case the 337RLS is not the only trailer you’ll ever own. It has better brakes and better turning radius than the 350. Further, the 2020 model has a ten-speed transmission and higher horsepower and torque that would reduce some of the fuel-cost difference the sales rep used to convince me to buy the 350 (the top two gears of the ten-speed are both overdrives for the daily-driver side of its duty) and make the truck a do-anything last truck you’ll ever buy RV hauler.

[gdocca]

Your dealer is trying to rip you off. I took the time to use Marc's KYD (Keep Your Daydream) spreadsheet, given your 2020 F350 Specs that I pulled from the Ford web site as well as numbers from the GDRV web site. Here is what was calculated for a SRW F350 Lariat 4x4...see attached.
Net net. Your available payload after loaded is 1090 pounds, GVW is 11,900 lbs, GCVW is 23805 lbs and Ford towing capacity for 5th/Gooseneck is 19,000 lbs.

[case24]

I would be worried the waiver could affect his warranty. I would definitely go to another dealership and make no mention of what you will be towing. That is need to know information.
Case24

[case24]

Tell your wife they are trying to up sell you to buy a bigger and more expensive truck. Their numbers are for their benefit not yours.
Case24

[The Bone]

Google search found multiple sites explaining the towing requirements of SAE-J2807. The rating standard includes driver and passenger at 150-lbs each and 70-lbs for a hitch. (However, I couldn't find anything specifying if this 370-lbs is or isn't part of the payload rating.) Fifth Wheel Street has a good article with details at "fifthwheelst.com/SAE-J2807-Tow-Tests".

Note: SAE.org shows a revision to SAE-J2807 posted 13 FEB 2020. It costs $83 to download/access...

Thank you for this Sarge

[Walaby]

SAE J2807 includes all vehicles up to 14,000 pounds GVWR.

The tow test procedures designed by the big brains at the SAE consist of a series of rigorous real-world challenges to determine the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) of a vehicle and trailer combination.

The rules require that a tow vehicle “shall be equipped with the propulsion system or powertrain and driveline (engine, transmission, axle ratio, tire size, etc.) and cooling package to produce the GCWR under test.”

The SAE J2807 document defines procedures and requirements to determine Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) and calculate corresponding Trailer Weight Rating (TWR) for any tow vehicle.

In addition to a vehicle’s base curb weight, the “Tow Vehicle Total Weight” (TVTW) for testing tow vehicles allocates 150 pounds for the driver, 150 pounds for a front seat passenger, the weight of all tow package equipment, and spicified weight of optional equipment (hitch ball, weight distribution bars, fifth wheel hitch, and such) split evenly between the front and rear axles.

The SAE J2807 test procedures are designed to level the playing field in trailer tow ratings for all vehicles model year 2013 or later.

It's a testing procedure. They are trying to test in a more realistic scenario in order to level the playing field. For example, it's more realistic to have 300lbs of passenger and the weight of a hitch. This still goes against payload, but presents a more likely application. If you look at the site referenced, it presents all kinds of scenarios that the respective tow vehicle has to comply with in order to be allowed to claim a certain towing capacity. Things like stopping distance etc...

Definition of payload still is the same it's always been and the weight of hitch and passengers still count against that.

Mike

[gdocca]

I would definitely go to another dealership and make no mention of what you will be towing. BTW, I have a 2019 GDRV Solitude 2930-RL S-Class and am towing it with my 2017 F350 SRW PowerStroke. I also did the numbers on this truck and rig (310GK and 2930-RL S-Class) as well as a larger (Reflection) when my wife and I were shopping for our fifth. We decided on the Solitude 2930-RL...We are within the guidelines for Ford (warranty and weights) and GDRV with the weights as well. I have never felt that the truck couldn't tow or more importantly stop safely. The F305 SRW is also my daily driver...and it's big and sometimes (i'm sure you all know this) difficult to find parking...IMHO I could not imagine having an F350/450 DRW...for times that you aren't towing....harsh ride, hard to park, no commercial car wash, no drive through/fast food.... Love the Solitude and the F350. Best, gdocca

[Walaby]

OP

Congrats on your purchase. Glad it got resolved and you're able to get what you want.

Mike