My tow vehicle

[backtrack2015]

Of course there is nothing noble about choosing a F250 over a F350. In my case it was a purely financial decision. I was unwilling to pass on $700 a month added to my paycheck and a fuel card. Others make the informed choice for practical, financial or regulatory reasons. I suspect a majority choose an F250 because to the public at large, F250 is synonymous with "heavy duty truck". They have no understanding of the ramifications of that choice. They get on a forum like this one and they get a bunch of new information and some misinformation. Either way, their eyes are opened.

My previous statement about real capability as opposed to capacity is not an opinion, it's an irrefutable fact. It doesn't matter if you choose an F150, F250, F350, F450, SRW or DRW, the only way to maximize the capacity of any truck is to minimize the capability, comfort, convenience, and/or safety of it. Capacity is a one dimensional rating. It is based only on weight. Cargo capacity is what is left when you subtract the scaled weight of your truck from the fixed number that is the GVWR assigned to your truck.

As an example, let's start with two SRW F350s, each equipped to the standard that gives them an 11,500 pound GVWR. Now let's start adding actual capability to just one of them. Add the fifth wheel prep package and a hitch. Now that truck is capable of hauling a fifth wheel. The other truck is clearly less capable because it is actually incapable of hauling a fifth wheel. What did the truck with actual capability sacrifice? The capacity on the payload sticker. That scenario holds true for every capability, comfort, convenience or safety feature you add. Whether that feature weighs a few ounces, or 200 pounds, it will decrease your capacity by the same weight. So, it is undeniable that making a more capable truck will have an inverse impact on it's capacity.

Some truck buyers are obsessed with their payload sticker. Others want all the capability, comfort, convenience, and safety they can squeeze into a truck at the expense of their their payload capacity and their bank account. Most probably try to achieve some balance between the two. Hopefully, these choices are made from an informed position.

I do not intend to be condescending. Most reading this post understand the relationship between capability and capacity. Some probably don't.

I advocate for the F250 owners because the weight zealots are by their nature only focused on one thing, the payload sticker. That is such a gross oversimplification. Yes, if buying a new truck, get as much capability and capacity as you can afford. If you already have a F250 (or any 2500) and getting a new truck, simply is not an option, don't despair. You can make it work safely, within reason, of course. The weight police would have you believe that the only option is buying a new truck or getting a different trailer. That is easy to say when it's someone else's money. There are cost effective ways to genuinely enhance the capability of any truck, in any weight classification. You can continue to enjoy getting your family out on adventures and do it safely.

I get it. If I'm on the jury, I'll vote against gross negligence if you prove your truck is mechanically identical to another with a higher rating and that you have not exceeded that higher rating. It is a cruel irony that adding capability to a truck reduces the sticker capacity (e.g., F450 vs F350 DRW, upgraded F250 vs standard F250). I'll say it again, however, that the vast majority of F250's yanking around 5ers in my part of the country are over the GVWR of the equivalent F350.

[xrated]

Of course there is nothing noble about choosing a F250 over a F350. In my case it was a purely financial decision. I was unwilling to pass on $700 a month added to my paycheck and a fuel card. Others make the informed choice for practical, financial or regulatory reasons. I suspect a majority choose an F250 because to the public at large, F250 is synonymous with "heavy duty truck". They have no understanding of the ramifications of that choice. They get on a forum like this one and they get a bunch of new information and some misinformation. Either way, their eyes are opened.

My previous statement about real capability as opposed to capacity is not an opinion, it's an irrefutable fact. It doesn't matter if you choose an F150, F250, F350, F450, SRW or DRW, the only way to maximize the capacity of any truck is to minimize the capability, comfort, convenience, and/or safety of it. Capacity is a one dimensional rating. It is based only on weight. Cargo capacity is what is left when you subtract the scaled weight of your truck from the fixed number that is the GVWR assigned to your truck.

As an example, let's start with two SRW F350s, each equipped to the standard that gives them an 11,500 pound GVWR. Now let's start adding actual capability to just one of them. Add the fifth wheel prep package and a hitch. Now that truck is capable of hauling a fifth wheel. The other truck is clearly less capable because it is actually incapable of hauling a fifth wheel. What did the truck with actual capability sacrifice? The capacity on the payload sticker. That scenario holds true for every capability, comfort, convenience or safety feature you add. Whether that feature weighs a few ounces, or 200 pounds, it will decrease your capacity by the same weight. So, it is undeniable that making a more capable truck will have an inverse impact on it's capacity.

Some truck buyers are obsessed with their payload sticker. Others want all the capability, comfort, convenience, and safety they can squeeze into a truck at the expense of their their payload capacity and their bank account. Most probably try to achieve some balance between the two. Hopefully, these choices are made from an informed position.

I do not intend to be condescending. Most reading this post understand the relationship between capability and capacity. Some probably don't.

I advocate for the F250 owners because the weight zealots are by their nature only focused on one thing, the payload sticker. That is such a gross oversimplification. Yes, if buying a new truck, get as much capability and capacity as you can afford. If you already have a F250 (or any 2500) and getting a new truck, simply is not an option, don't despair. You can make it work safely, within reason, of course. The weight police would have you believe that the only option is buying a new truck or getting a different trailer. That is easy to say when it's someone else's money. There are cost effective ways to genuinely enhance the capability of any truck, in any weight classification. You can continue to enjoy getting your family out on adventures and do it safely.

So what is your simple answer to someone that has a truck/trailer combination and they find that they are over the payload sticker by several hundred pounds......because of the amount of pin weight of the trailer, the amount of stuff they carry in or on the truck?

[JeffD68]

I'll say it again, however, that the vast majority of F250's yanking around 5ers in my part of the country are over the GVWR of the equivalent F350.

I beleive you are correct. That means that the roads are also full of F350s that are over their GVWR. Odds are, many high trim level, diesel, SRW, F350s pulling 15,000 GVW fifth wheels are over their GVWR/payload capacity.

[JeffD68]

So what is your simple answer to someone that has a truck/trailer combination and they find that they are over the payload sticker by several hundred pounds......because of the amount of pin weight of the trailer, the amount of stuff they carry in or on the truck?

Simple answer? That might differ since not all trucks of an equal weight class are created equally. You might not need to do anything. Other than adding StableLoad upper overloads (to engage the overload springs sooner and keep the truck level), I have done nothing. Of course, my specific truck is as stout as you can possibly equip a F250. Maybe carry less. Certainly helper springs and replacement leaf springs are much cheaper than a new truck. Upgrading tires is relatively inexpensive. Heavy service break pads can benefit any truck. Once again, I put little stock in the assigned GVWR that drives the number on the payload sticker. If you are not exceeding the axle and tire ratings (derived from actual testing) and your truck has good road manners while towing, I don't think being over your GVWR/payload capacity poses an actual concern from a mechanical standpoint.

[xrated]

I beleive you are correct. That means that the roads are also full of F350s that are over their GVWR. Odds are, many high trim level, diesel, SRW, F350s pulling 15,000 GVW fifth wheels are over their GVWR/payload capacity.

Something that comes to mind here, and I am referring to the F250 and F350 (can't speak about GM or Ram products), for the model years 2011-2016....the F250 and the F350 definitely had some differences between the two of them in the rear end. Even though they both showed the same part number for the rear axle, the internal parts of the axle were different. I can't remember all of the differences, but the actual axle itself was smaller on the F250, the splines on the axle of course was different, bearings and something else as I recall. In fact, if you went to a Dealer and tried to order something that was internal to the axle assembly, they had to have the vehicle V.I.N. in order to get the correct parts....based on what truck you had. That may be different now, I really don't know as the 2017 model year and up is a different generation of the F250/F350 trucks. So besides the number of rear springs, there were some differences in the rear axle also. Brakes were the same on both though, so other than what I mentioned above, I know of nothing different between the two. So the capacity of the two trucks, based on what I know, was in fact different

[xrated]

Simple answer? That might differ since not all trucks of an equal weight class are created equally. You might not need to do anything. Other than adding StableLoad upper overloads (to engage the overload springs sooner and keep the truck level), I have done nothing. Of course, my specific truck is as stout as you can possibly equip a F250. Maybe carry less. Certainly helper springs and replacement leaf springs are much cheaper than a new truck. Upgrading tires is relatively inexpensive. Heavy service break pads can benefit any truck. Once again, I put little stock in the assigned GVWR that drives the number on the payload sticker. If you are not exceeding the axle and tire ratings (derived from actual testing) and your truck has good road manners while towing, I don't think being over your GVWR/payload capacity poses an actual concern from a mechanical standpoint.

StableLoad, helper springs, replacement leaf springs, Airbags.....none of that actually increase the designated payload capacity of any truck, but I'm 100% sure you already know that. I'm more in the camp of staying within the listed numbers, all of them. And as far as the tire ratings go, that would be the last of the progression to be overloaded. Payload/GVWR is first, axle ratings are second, then the tire load capacity is third if you continue to overload a truck past the listed ratings. In my opinion, there is a reason that every single truck manufacturer will clearly state in the owner's manual to never exceed any of the load capacities of a truck, which include Payload, GVWR, GCVWR, FAWR, RAWR, Tire Load Capacity, or the Towing capacity. We may simply have to agree to disagree on this one, but one thing is for sure, no one will ever be able to say that I am overloaded in anyway with my combo.

[backtrack2015]

I beleive you are correct. That means that the roads are also full of F350s that are over their GVWR. Odds are, many high trim level, diesel, SRW, F350s pulling 15,000 GVW fifth wheels are over their GVWR/payload capacity.

I’m sure there are plenty of F350 SRW over GVWR. I couldn’t go larger than the 28BH since my cab includes four passengers and a dog. It isn’t hard at all to get to 11500.

[xrated]

I agree backtrack.....the weight starts piling on pretty quickly for sure. I bought my Dually before I actually needed a Dually. I had a 13K tow behind T.H. that was 34 1/2' long, so pretty much overkill for that trailer. But I did the smart thing and went with a Dually as I knew that in the near future (1 1/2 years later)I was going to buy a much larger T.H. and it of course would be a 5ver instead of a tow behind. I bought the trailer that is in my signature.....and it has a 20K GVWR and I have almost 5300 lbs of payload capacity with that truck. I also carry an aux. fuel tank and loaded with fuel and counting the weight of the tank, that takes almost 600 lbs away from my truck's payload numbers....but I knew that too.

[JeffD68]

StableLoad, helper springs, replacement leaf springs, Airbags.....none of that actually increase the designated payload capacity of any truck, but I'm 100% sure you already know that. I'm more in the camp of staying within the listed numbers, all of them. And as far as the tire ratings go, that would be the last of the progression to be overloaded. Payload/GVWR is first, axle ratings are second, then the tire load capacity is third if you continue to overload a truck past the listed ratings. In my opinion, there is a reason that every single truck manufacturer will clearly state in the owner's manual to never exceed any of the load capacities of a truck, which include Payload, GVWR, GCVWR, FAWR, RAWR, Tire Load Capacity, or the Towing capacity. We may simply have to agree to disagree on this one, but one thing is for sure, no one will ever be able to say that I am overloaded in anyway with my combo.

xrated- You are the epitome of the sticker devotees! And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. You will always be operating within the capacity and capability of your truck. If you prioritize GVWR above all else, the other ratings are irrelevant to you. It is literally impossible to exceed your payload capacity and virtually impossible to exceed any other ratings. For my truck, I would exceed my GVWR by 1,880 lbs. before I exceeded my rear axle rating.

If you are going to prioritize ratings, I believe staying under the tire rating is far and away the most critical. I have never witnessed or heard of an axle or spring failing due to overload. Actually, I have never heard of them failing, period. They are obviously engineered to withstand forces well beyond their rating. Tires fail catastrophically all the time. They are susceptible to overloading, under inflation, over inflation and road hazards.

Most of us understand that no enhancement can increase your payload capacity as printed on the sticker in our drivers side door jamb but many of them do increase your actual capability.

Everything comes with a warning. It has little to do with protecting you and everything to do with the manufacturer protecting themselves from potential liability. Heck, a cup of coffee comes with a warning!

I do not intend this to be confrontational, but I have asked this question so many times and no member of the weight police has ever answered it; Do you adhere to all rules this fervently? When you see a rule, do you absolutely follow it without applying any logic or reason? Are you willing to exceed the speed limit on an empty highway in good road conditions? What is it about the payload issue that makes people so fanatical? Most of us make judgments every day before determining if we are willing to break a rule, exceed a limit, or surpass a rating. The weight police tend to be myopic on this one very specific rating and I highly doubt they are like that in other aspects of their life. I guess this is more of a character study than helpful towing information.

I respect the position of the weight police as it pertains to their personal choice but there is more than one way (no pun intended) to view this issue. Not many things in life are as black and white as the weight police tend to make this issue.

[ramcneal]

I respect the position of the weight police as it pertains to their personal choice but there is more than one way (no pun intended) to view this issue. Not many things in life are as black and white as the weight police tend to make this issue.

I only have one thing to note regarding your choice to disregard the posted ratings. By doing so you limit your ability to travel into Canada. I've forgotten if it was a member on this forum or another who lives in Canada and noted that in Canada their police now randomly pull over trucks, including RVs, and perform spot inspections with scales. If your trailer exceeds the GVWR you can't move the trailer until the problem is fixed. If your truck exceeds the limits, same thing, the problem must be fixed before you're allowed to move again. I don't remember if there are fines involved, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was. Again, your choice as you say. I certainly wouldn't want my vacation interrupted. It wouldn't surprise me if California implemented something like that given the number of RV's. California already has lower speed limits for any vehicle towing a trailer and shorter overall length allowed than other states.