Lithium Ion Battery

[PVISION]

If your Solar system is capable of charging Lithium (LiFePo4) batteries, then you can delay upgrading your Converter to a "Lithium" capable Converter. Otherwise, you will not receive the full advantages of your Lithium battery upgrade.

Having said that, Installing a Lithium battery is still worthwhile, because, you get all the other benefits of having Lithium batteries, but, with (approx.) the same energy storage capacity as the LA battery you are replacing.

One RVer who installed LiFePo4 batteries was only able to achieve ~ 55% charge with his OEM Converter, however, since he had a Solar system on his rig, he was able to delay upgrading his Converter for quite a while.

Before you replace your Converter, check to make sure that your Converter is not "Lithium" capable, some OEM Converters are "Lithium" capable from the factory, unfortunately, not all OEMs are installing these "Lithium" capable Converters.

Hey Dave,
thanks
I have asked Grand Design if the converter is compatible. My solar is one small panel, but I'm leaving for Alaska in June so I should get more sun to charge the Lithium battery.

[JKellerJr]

Make sure that if you are going to be using/having to charge the LFP battery in the colder climates, that you have either a heated battery box or buy the BB with the heated option. Generally speaking, you cannot charge LFP batteries when the ambient air temperature is below 32° F. I think BB claims a little lower temps are OK, but as a rule of thumb, no charging below 32.

Very Important to follow this advice !!!!

I think it's important to expand on a little this so no one gets too concerned about battery damage. With Battleborn (and I don't think they are the only ones) this is an non issue in terms of damaging a battery. BB will automatically cut off charging of the internal temp of the battery drops below 24 degrees, the battery will be able to continue to discharge down to below zero. The air temp really doesn't matter, only the temp of the battery itself. (hence the heated batteries or battery box @xrated suggested). Another option especially if your doing a bunch of cold weather camping, is to move them inside, Lithium doesn't gas off so you can keep them inside a heated or at least warmer area of the unit. Then they're not using some of that battery capacity keeping themselves warm.

You don't need to run out and buy thermometers and shut off your batteries if the temps drop, The BMS will do that worrying for you (on batteries that have that feature).

[JKellerJr]

Hey Dave,
thanks
I have asked Grand Design if the converter is compatible. My solar is one small panel, but I'm leaving for Alaska in June so I should get more sun to charge the Lithium battery.

I would be wary of an answer from Grand design. Being compatible and working well are to very different things. Your best option is to find the model number of your converter and call battleborn. They are always very helpful. If they don't have the answer then the manufacturer of the converter would be my second option.

[Rob+Kath]

What are your thoughts on replacing my existing Interstate battery with a new Battle Borne Lithium Ion battery, in my Imagine RBE? I have a small solar dealer installed system.
Some people suggest I get the Lithium Ion

I have done exactly this swap (Interstate for a LI batt, [not BB]). All of the comments and advice in this thread are spot on correct. There is a bit more to it than just swapping the battery.
None of it is difficult. If you can handle very basic electrical work, its not going to be a problem. Otherwise, get a pro.
Short answer: YES.

Based on a preliminary amateur test of my system, upgraded to a single 200AH LI battery: Five times+ the run time operating the 5'er based on the old interstate.

Rob

[IBEW Sparky]

I have done exactly this swap (Interstate for a LI batt, [not BB]). All of the comments and advice in this thread are spot on correct. There is a bit more to it than just swapping the battery.
None of it is difficult. If you can handle very basic electrical work, its not going to be a problem. Otherwise, get a pro.
Short answer: YES.

Based on a preliminary amateur test of my system, upgraded to a single 200AH LI battery: Five times+ the run time operating the 5'er based on the old interstate.

Rob

Just curious if you changed out anything else other than the batteries? And also what factory converter do you have? Thanks.

[Boogiejack75]

What are your thoughts on replacing my existing Interstate battery with a new Battle Borne Lithium Ion battery, in my Imagine RBE? I have a small solar dealer installed system.
Some people suggest I get the Lithium Ion

No need to replace unless you are going to boondock.

[Rob+Kath]

Just curious if you changed out anything else other than the batteries? And also what factory converter do you have? Thanks.

I pulled the original Interstate Deep Cycle (three years old) and put in a Renogy 200AH LI Battery. The plan was to have a small inverter capability, just in case I needed AC power. As I dug deeper, it became apparent that I would want not only a new battery, but an inverter and the converter/charger.

The converter/charger upgrade was not absolutely needed. But as long as I was spending on the LI battery, it does help take full advantage of the faster charging and keeping the LI up to maximum capacity. The factory charger works, just not optimal (I believe it was a 60 Amp unit). Another reason was that; keeping the original Converter was adding another device that has wiring and connections to the system. By installing a Converter/LI battery Charger/Inverter that is all in one box, I eliminate connections and wires that can rub or loosen on the road.

The original converter is still sitting in place, just disconnected. The new battery and Charger/Converter/Inverter are installed in the front bay. All I needed to wire was an AC line from the EMS to the new Converter and back to the AC breaker panel. There was also some wiring added for the new Battery, but that was within inches of the new Converter. Overall, no big deal.

There is not a plan to Boondock (can always change my mind). We wanted to know we could last a day and still operate comfortably without external power (No Air Conditioning of course). It gives us some freedom in case of an emergency overnight or bad weather, etc.
Aside from the connectors, circuit breakers, wire and such:
https://gpelectric.com/products/ic-s...erter-charger/
https://www.renogy.com/12v-200ah-lit...y-w-bluetooth/

There are several good manufacturers out there. These are what I used.
Rob

UPDATE:
I checked the original converter. It was a WFCO 55 Amp.
Rob

[jasonf]

I too am going through this journey right now. Check out Will Prowse on youtube. He has many excellent videos that taught me everything I need to know. BattleBorns are very expensive and may not be required depending on your needs.

Definitely get Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4). There are a few different chemistries for Lithium batteries, and LiFePO4 is far and above the best.

Some LiFePO4 batteries come with low temperature charge protection which means that it has a sensor that stops the battery from charging when its temp is less than 32 degrees. Other cheaper batteries do not have this protection and charging them when their temp is less than 32 degrees will ruin them (although some battery makers are now claiming they can charge LiFePO4 batteries below freezing).

Other than that, the rest of the things I have learned are covered elsewhere in this thread.

[Brother_Bluto]

Generally the WFCO 55A converters that GD uses are not designed for LiFePo4. While you can still get by with using it... a converter is cheap and easy to replace. I think I paid $150 for the PD9160ALV. Assuming your converter is behind the wall in the pass-through like it is in our Momentum... it is roughly a 10min install/swap once you get access to it.

I have (4) Battle Born 100Ah - great batteries and good customer service. In hindsight however I should have looked harder at (2) SOK 206Ah batteries to save some footprint as it is tight in that front bay with a generator.

[TWORIGS]

What are your thoughts on replacing my existing Interstate battery with a new Battle Borne Lithium Ion battery, in my Imagine RBE? I have a small solar dealer installed system.
Some people suggest I get the Lithium Ion

When I bought my new trailer I had them install two Lithium (Lion) batteries because I was running out of power with average demand. They told me that one Lithium would be equal to two lead acid batteries. Long story short not true: 1 they took for ever to charge, 2 discharge was quick.
The trailer did not come with a Lithium battery charger (possible problem) and I was told that was the problem. Well Grand Design has several suppliers of power supplies at their disposal and they don't know that your unit would or could have the correct power supply at the time of purchase. They replaced the standard lead acid charger with a Lithium charger. The next issue was that the batteries did not discharge at the same rate. This proved to be that one of the batteries had a battery maintance controller (BMC) which the company replaced (Lion). Also the panel display in the unit will show that you have a 100% battery life because it is set up for lead acid and your Lithium will not show the percentages of the charge on the batteries, there fore your batteries will shut down without any warning, leaving your dead in the water.
I don' know about your batteries, but Lion battteries are make here in Utah, and their service has been great.