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  1. #11
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    @Carverelli I also agree with everyone here that the 397 is dually territory. Hopefully you will reconsider your stance. I also invite you to watch the first part of this video where Chad goes over weight math to determine if a truck can safely tow a trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87runDszXLQ
    2021 Momentum 395MS

  2. #12
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carverelli View Post
    so basically what I'm starting to understand here is the amount of weight transferred from the trailer to the rear axle of the truck must be limited because 2 wheels 1 axle and 2 tires can only safely handle so much.

    The engine, transmission, type of hitch used is mostly irrelevant.
    To transfer more weight from a heavier trailer at the contact point I'll need more rubber to the ground. 4 tries vs 2.
    Of course air bags or the like might help slightly, but not much.
    Why couldnt I load a few thousand lbs of roofing shingles in the garage section of the trailer. That should lighten the front end of the trailer just enough ������
    You're getting there. Every vehicle made has a payload capacity rating that was determined by the manufacturer of the vehicle. With 5th Wheel type Camping trailers you WILL run out of payload capacity long before you run out of towing capacity. Another thing to consider, EVERY single one of the vehicle manufacturers will clearly state, somewhere in the owner's manual for that vehicle....to NEVER EXCEED any of the listed weight capacities or ratings. Those include the following....GVWR, FAWR, RAWR, GCVWR, Payload capacity, Towing capacity, and Tire Load ratings.

    In the case of your truck and a 397TH, you will exceed the GVWR of the truck, GCVWR, Payload capacity, Towing Capacity...and almost certainly the RAWR, and probably the tire load capacity. And to be clear, I am NOT criticizing your truck, it is certainly capable of towing a 5th wheel camping type trailer, BUT....it's capabilities would be far exceeded with a trailer as heavy as a 397TH, as well as many of the heavier 5th wheel camping trailers that are out there.

    When towing a 5th Wheel Camping trailer, it's not about the towing capacity, it's about how much is the truck able to CARRY...WITHOUT going over ANY of the truck manufacturer's listed weight capacities and ratings. Payload will be the first thing to be exceeded. And once you've gone over payload capacity, you are automatically over the GVWR of the truck. It starts to snowball down hill from there......RAWR.....GCVWR...Tire Load capacity rating, etc.

    Adding air bags do absolutely nothing to increase the payload capacity of the vehicle. In fact, if you want to get technical about it, they actually DECREASE your truck's rated payload capacity. The total amount of weight that they add (which isn't more that probably 40 or 50 lbs) takes away from the listed payload number. Anything and Everything that is added to the truck, takes away some of the listed payload capacity......a toolbox in the bed of the truck, the hitch in the bed, extra fuel, carrying firewood, and yes, even a set of air bags. Anything and Everything that has been added to the truck AFTER the day it was built (and the payload capacity was determined), will cause you to lose some of the listed payload capacity. Given the fact that your truck likely has a payload number in the low to mid 30's......3300, 3400 lbs ??????, You will be grossly overweight with your truck and the 397TH.

    Post up a picture of the payload sticker of YOUR truck.....and then do some math. Or even better, take your truck to a CAT scale and weigh the truck, loaded up just like it would be when you would be ready to hook up to a 5th wheel camper and start towing. Take THAT number, and subtract it from the truck's GVWR and see exactly what you have left for adding a 5ver pin weight to the truck.

    And the last point I'm going to make in regard to this post....if you HAVE TO ADD anything......roofing shingles, a SXS, a stack of steel anvils....anything, to the back of the trailer to make the pin weight work for you, YOU HAVE THE WRONG TRUCK, it's just that simple.
    Last edited by xrated; 09-22-2022 at 05:51 AM.
    2016 F350 CrewCab Dually
    2018 Momentum 394M...Heavily Modded!
    2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000 GT+
    Excessive Payload is a Wonderful Thing

    "If it ain't fast....It ain't Fun"

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carverelli View Post
    so basically what I'm starting to understand here is the amount of weight transferred from the trailer to the rear axle of the truck must be limited because 2 wheels 1 axle and 2 tires can only safely handle so much.

    The engine, transmission, type of hitch used is mostly irrelevant.
    To transfer more weight from a heavier trailer at the contact point I'll need more rubber to the ground. 4 tires vs 2.
    With a dually, your payload capacity will likely be in the 5,500 to 5,800 lb range. Pin weight of 4,500 lbs now is within limits and gives you 1,000 lbs of payload capacity for the hitch, toolbox, passengers, etc.
    New: 2021 Solitude 380FL
    Prior: 2016 Alpine 3600RS
    Tow: 2017 F350 Diesel Dually

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captcolour View Post
    With a dually, your payload capacity will likely be in the 5,500 to 5,800 lb range. Pin weight of 4,500 lbs now is within limits and gives you 1,000 lbs of payload capacity for the hitch, toolbox, passengers, etc.
    That's not really accurate. Many duallies have payloads of 3,000 lbs. or less. It depends on how the truck is configured. I have a stripped down, somewhat anyway, 2018 Tradesman, and the payload on this truck is about 5,900 lbs. But if you start looking at loaded Laramies, you will see much lower payload ratings. A dually Megacab is down around 2,000 lbs. I would be much more concerned with exceeding my RAWR than anything else, but that's just me.
    Howard and Peggy
    2019 Momentum 351M, and 2018 RAM Cummins dually 6-speed.
    His: 1999 Honda Interceptor
    Hers: 2013 Spyder ST-S

  5. #15
    Site Team xrated's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood View Post
    That's not really accurate. Many duallies have payloads of 3,000 lbs. or less. It depends on how the truck is configured. I have a stripped down, somewhat anyway, 2018 Tradesman, and the payload on this truck is about 5,900 lbs. But if you start looking at loaded Laramies, you will see much lower payload ratings. A dually Megacab is down around 2,000 lbs. I would be much more concerned with exceeding my RAWR than anything else, but that's just me.
    I'll just leave this here for reference. I have a 2016 F350 CrewCab, 8' bed, 4x4, King Ranch diesel 6.7L engine that is loaded up with almost everything except the two tone paint that many of the King Ranch versions have. It also came from the factory with the 5th Wheel hitch prep package (not the hitch itself) and including a sun/moon roof and the payload number is 5270 lbs. They just don't come much more loaded up than this one, yet is almost 5300 lbs of payload.

    I do realize that some of the older Dually trucks from years past, had quite a bit lower payload numbers, but that is when the GVWR was also much lower. The newer Dually trucks, in many cases will have a GVWR of 14,000 lbs.
    2016 F350 CrewCab Dually
    2018 Momentum 394M...Heavily Modded!
    2023 Suzuki GSX-S1000 GT+
    Excessive Payload is a Wonderful Thing

    "If it ain't fast....It ain't Fun"

  6. #16
    Site Team Second Chance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood View Post
    That's not really accurate. Many duallies have payloads of 3,000 lbs. or less. It depends on how the truck is configured. I have a stripped down, somewhat anyway, 2018 Tradesman, and the payload on this truck is about 5,900 lbs. But if you start looking at loaded Laramies, you will see much lower payload ratings. A dually Megacab is down around 2,000 lbs. I would be much more concerned with exceeding my RAWR than anything else, but that's just me.
    Quote Originally Posted by xrated View Post
    I'll just leave this here for reference. I have a 2016 F350 CrewCab, 8' bed, 4x4, King Ranch diesel 6.7L engine that is loaded up with almost everything except the two tone paint that many of the King Ranch versions have. It also came from the factory with the 5th Wheel hitch prep package (not the hitch itself) and including a sun/moon roof and the payload number is 5270 lbs. They just don't come much more loaded up than this one, yet is almost 5300 lbs of payload.

    I do realize that some of the older Dually trucks from years past, had quite a bit lower payload numbers, but that is when the GVWR was also much lower. The newer Dually trucks, in many cases will have a GVWR of 14,000 lbs.
    For the record, as well... even my 2012 CC LB Lariat (RWD) 6.7 diesel has a payload of 5,120 lbs. - and that's per the CAT scales with the hitch installed, a truck box full of tools and junk, and me in the cab. There must be something wrong with the RAMs if a dually has a payload of only 2,000 lbs.

    Rob
    U.S. Army Retired
    2012 F350 DRW CC LB Lariat PS 6.7
    2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes,
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    (Previously in a Reflection 337RLS)
    Full time since 08/2015

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood View Post
    That's not really accurate. Many duallies have payloads of 3,000 lbs. or less. It depends on how the truck is configured. I have a stripped down, somewhat anyway, 2018 Tradesman, and the payload on this truck is about 5,900 lbs. But if you start looking at loaded Laramies, you will see much lower payload ratings. A dually Megacab is down around 2,000 lbs. I would be much more concerned with exceeding my RAWR than anything else, but that's just me.
    Any current dually will have will have a payload near or exceeding 5K regardless of the trim level or manufacturer. The lowest will be f 450's in the upper 4's. (which is ironic, buts thats another discussion)

    A dually mega cab does not weigh 12,000 lbs. Payload is 14K - weight of the truck. Payload should be around 5K. Mega's are not that much heavier than crews since they are all short beds.

    My loaded SWR denali with a 11,300 GVWR has a 3,300+ payload. No dually will be close to that low.
    2021 Solitude 375 RES-R
    2024 GMC Denali ultimate DRW

  8. #18
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    Some of the MegaCabs have very low GVWR, as I have read of some people that were thinking their Megacab would be a towing beast, but the payload was meager.
    Howard and Peggy
    2019 Momentum 351M, and 2018 RAM Cummins dually 6-speed.
    His: 1999 Honda Interceptor
    Hers: 2013 Spyder ST-S

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Second Chance View Post
    There must be something wrong with the RAMs if a dually has a payload of only 2,000 lbs.

    Rob
    That's not accurate. I have a friend with a SRW laramie mega. his payload is like 4000 with a 12,300 GVWR. add 1700 to that minus the extra wheels and bigger bed.
    2021 Solitude 375 RES-R
    2024 GMC Denali ultimate DRW

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood View Post
    Some of the MegaCabs have very low GVWR, as I have read of some people that were thinking their Megacab would be a towing beast, but the payload was meager.
    Unless you're talking pre 2013 every dually from Ram will have a 14K GVWR regardless of trim or configuration.
    2021 Solitude 375 RES-R
    2024 GMC Denali ultimate DRW

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