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12-09-2022, 07:55 AM #1
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DC to AC inverter/converter 2023 GD Imagine
Hello,
I'm not quite sure if I'm going about this question correctly as I'm new to this forum and new to our RV.
We have a new 2023 GD Imagine and we're looking to purchase a DC to AC invertor/convertor.
We're not real familiar with how they work. If someone could point me in the right direction, it's much appreciated.
Thank you,
ASPlife2013 Nissan Titan 4WD Crew Cab SWB
2023 Grand Design Imagine 2670MK
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12-09-2022, 07:57 AM #2
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12-09-2022, 08:42 AM #3
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Provide AC power without running the generator (during quiet hours) to power things like a coffee pot. And pardon my ignorance as I'm not versed in this at all. Thank you
2013 Nissan Titan 4WD Crew Cab SWB
2023 Grand Design Imagine 2670MK
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12-09-2022, 09:21 AM #4
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OK, there are several choices for inverters (they supply AC from your DC system). The first job is to add up all the things you think you'd like to power at once, giving you an idea of the capacity of the inverter you'll need. If the coffee pot is the primary need, find out how much it draws. If you can wait to use other appliances, an inverter that will just power the coffee pot may be enough. A 2,000-watt inverter is a popular size that would probably run your coffee pot (https://smile.amazon.com/Renogy-Inve.../dp/B07H9SXV61). Next, look at how much battery capacity you have. You may want to upgrade if you're currently using the stock battery that came with your coach, those batteries won't power an inverter for very long.
Look around on the forum, there are many threads on how to manage your coach's power when you're off-grid.Stephen and Judy
2022 Reflection 150 Series 260RD (Stella)
2017 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD (Blue)
Traded - 2018 Forest River Rockwood Minilite 2104S
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12-09-2022, 09:29 AM #5
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Moved to Electrical Systems and Wiring.
RobU.S. Army Retired
2012 F350 DRW CC LB Lariat PS 6.7
2020 Solitude 310GK-R, MORryde IS, disc brakes,
Sailun LRG tires, solar, DP windows, W/D
(Previously in a Reflection 337RLS)
Full time since 08/2015
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12-09-2022, 10:07 AM #6
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2018 Dodge 3500 6.7 Cummins SRW w/Aisin
2021 Reflection 303RLS
New to RV'ing since 1997
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12-09-2022, 10:36 AM #7
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As @Soundsailor mentioned, the first thing you will need to do is to add up all the 110 VAC things you want to use on the inverter. For example, a Keurig coffee maker will use up to 1500 watts when starting from being unplugged and 200-400 watts if already plugged in. Hair dryers are typically 1000-1500 watts, microwaves in RVs are usually 1000-1500 watts. If your refrigerator is an absorption refrigerator, you will want to run it on propane when boondocking, same thing with the water heater. If you want to watch TV, most RV TVs will use between 30 and 60 watts.
The rest of this is pretty in depth and a little complicated (and probably not all inclusive, just more of a high level overview with some deep dives.)
Why are we looking at watts? All inverters are advertised in watts.
Want is a watt? A watt is a unit of power measurement and is calculated as amps times volts equals watts. So to find the amps of a given item, say the coffee maker, we take the highest rating of 1500 and divide it by 110vac which equals 13.6 amps for startup heating and 400/110=3.6 amps for running if already plugged in.
Once you have these numbers, then as them up. And look for an inverter that provides 25% more watts than you calculated. (It ensure you have plenty of overhead just in case.)
Now, let's say you've calculated you need 1500 watts, I would buy a 2000 watt pure sinewave inverter.
Assuming you are boondocking (because you are mentioning a generator), you will need 12 volt power to run the inverter. To run a 2000 watt inverter for 24 hours, you will need approximately 4000 amp hours of batteries. this is assuming that you have no solar or generator to charge the batteries. (Yes, this sounds like a lot.)
Next, you now need to look at how you are going to charge the batteries, and this will significantly reduce the size of the battery bank. To calculate the amount of solar you will need, you need to calculate how much battery you will most likely use. Use the highest amount of watts that you think you will use in one hour and use that number to extrapolate your daily usage on a battery bank. Let's take the 1500 watts we mentioned earlier. Say we use 1500 watts in one hour (which is unlikely), this is 13.63 amp hours (ah). This gives you an idea that you will need to replenish at least 13.63 amps per hour via solar or a generator (on this number, you can fudge a little bit and call it 10 amps per hour). A 200 watt solar panel will provide approximately 16.6 amps per hour, so technically one 200 watt solar panel, in full sunlight will run the inverter and charge the battery. In the real world, not so much. The general rule of thumb for this type of calculation is 15-25%, so 25% of 16.6 amps is 4.16 amps per hour going through the charge controller to the batteries and supporting the inverter. So, now you need at least 800 watts of solar at a minimum.
Now to the battery bank. Any type of lead acid battery, whether it be a wet cell lead acid, an AGM, or a sealed lead acid battery will provide less then 100 ah and can only be discharged to "50%" before you start to damage the batteries. There are many discussions here on the forum that talk about the benefits of LiFePO4 batteries. There are some that cost as little as an AGM battery and provide a contant 100 ah of power throughout the discharge cycle. All LA (lead acid) batteries will lower the ah available as the battery discharges.
When considering your runtime without recharging (overnight, during a cloudy day and overnight for solar, etc.) you will need to anticipate your battery needs based on the watts (or calculated amp hours) to cover the times you won't be able to charge the bank. When Iwas doing my calculations, a 200 ah bank would suffice, but to be safe, I would double that capacity to 400 ah.
Next, where to put everything? If you have a fifth wheel and plan on putting them in the generator compartment, you will need to make sure you buy LiFePO4 batteries with a cold temp cutoff. The reason for this is that LiFePO4 batteries do not take a charge when the internal temperature is below 32° F. Most of us with fifth wheels put them in the heated basement, behind the false wall. If a travel trailer, are you going to put them on the tongue? If so, you will need to find a way to secure them (which adds weight to the tongue); or are you going to put the under the bed or dining bench?
Finally, you will need to make sure the wires are sized appropriately, from the charge controller to the batteries, should be no smaller than 0/2, preferable 0/4 stranded copper, and everything needs to be connected via a busbar..
So, as you can see, your simple question doesn't have such a simple answer.
Let us know if you need clarification on any of this.Mark & Mary. Full-timing across the USA (and Canada)!
Current Coach: 2021 Grand Design Reflection 320MKS
Current Rig: 2019 Ford F350 SD Crew Cab, w/8' box, Lariat, SRW, 6.7l Diesel
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12-09-2022, 10:45 AM #8
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Great advice - start with the desired end product and work your way backwards.
I have an extensive electronics background and still find some of this stuff confusing. I just recently started upgrading some of the components on our relatively new Reflection, trying (I think) to obtain the same results you are seeking. I started with the battery - just purchased a 200 amp hour LiFePo4 (lithium). Before buying the battery, I had to think about how I would charge it. The stock 165w solar panel may help to keep it topped off on sunny days but will do very little to maintain the charge under heavy loads such as a coffee pot or microwave. Step 2 for me will be upgrading the converter/charger - yours may already be lithium compatible (if you opt to go lithium). Once I am able to maintain sufficient battery charge, I will install a 2k inverter. In the end, I plan to install a dc/dc charger to take advantage of the 440 amp charging capabilities of my truck.
Another thing to consider - is your new rig prewired for an inverter? If yes, what circuits? Lots of things to consider.2022 Ram 2500 4x4, 6.7 Cummins, RamBox, Air Lift 5000 Ultimate Plus, B&W Companion
2022 Reflection 303RLS, Progressive hardwired EMS, Airborne Sidewinder
YouTube Chanel
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12-09-2022, 10:53 AM #9
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As do I. It's a hobby. I dove head first into solar and all the little nuances years ago. It took me a couple of years to fully grasp everything about it, even with that experience, there are still gray areas. I went so far as to build my own charge controller using discrete components. It worked, just no where near as efficient as the COTS versions, plus I had heat dissipation issues. Trying to use heatsinks ended up costing about twice what a more efficient COTS one cost. Lesson learned, both in cost and build knowledge.
Mark & Mary. Full-timing across the USA (and Canada)!
Current Coach: 2021 Grand Design Reflection 320MKS
Current Rig: 2019 Ford F350 SD Crew Cab, w/8' box, Lariat, SRW, 6.7l Diesel
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12-09-2022, 11:56 AM #10
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first a disclaimer - we don't boondock but we do have to dry camp for a few nights sometimes (even up to 7 nights in extreme cases) and we only have one 200ah Lithium battery and a 2000w inverter/converter, and 2 Honda 2000i generators; no solar or the desire for the complications that brings. We've been doing this for over 30 years (gosh - almost 35 if I start to count - yikes!)
A real simple solution is to make your coffee during "noisy" hours. We aren't early risers so quite hours are over by the time we are ready for coffee. We use one Honda 2000i for a.m. electric needs, it also charges the batteries up if you run it for a few hours before you go out for the day. Then run the generator again in the evening for dinner time or whatever, get a few more hours of charge on the battery(s) and make that last pot of coffee just before quite hours.
Since you said "...during quiet hours..." and didn't say boondocking I figure you don't need a robust system. If your current arrangement gets you through the night (quiet hours) then mostly just get a small, quiet generator. If your current arrangement doesn't get you through the night then you need more battery capacity just for that - and a small, quiet generator.Larry KE4DMG
2022 F-350 KRU SRW LB - Airlift 5000+, ForScan, 37 RDS Aux Tank,
2019 310GK-R - Sailuns; MorRyde IS; Disc Brakes; 20K Reese Goosebox
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Reflection swivel table question
Today, 04:22 PM in New To RV'ing, Purchase Questions & General Concerns