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01-21-2022, 05:35 PM #11
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UMMM, the batteries used in cars, and RV's are, if I am not mistaken, Lithium Iron Phosphate, and last upwards of 10 years or more. Lead acid batteries are on the way out and are not used in EV's that I am aware of. I do believe we are quite a way's away from a total EV environment, but it will come. How soon depends on a lot of factors, not the least of which is the availability of the Lithium which is now pretty much controlled by the Chinese. Battery development is increasing by leaps and bounds, similar to computer tech. The two are bound together anyway with the use of battery monitoring systems and all of the "stuff" needed to keep these systems working efficiently. Fossil fuels will be around for a while yet, but not that much longer.
Bob (retired) & Vicki
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01-22-2022, 05:11 PM #12
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EV's are a fantastic technology. Electric motors are fantastic for driving, towing, and, actually, just about everything compared to internal combustion. All heavy equipment you see does either one of two things, turns the power into electric (diesel-electric locomotives, for example) or turns the power in hydraulic force (excavators, etc). No question, in my mind, that the electric motor wins this battle, it's just better.
What's not better is batteries vs diesel/gasoline. The energy density between the 2 is laughable, the time to refill more laughable, and the power requirements to refuel something like a semi (or an F450) are absolutely ridiculous. I'd love an EV, I have little use for a BEV because they just make no sense at many of my uses.
However, I think if they worked a bit harder at it they can build a heavy duty truck that can get good range even when towing (300+ miles).
The vehicle I want is an F450 with a 3L diesel engine, 100KW of battery on board, plug in hybrid. I'd use the diesel engine a LOT less because I'd plug in and use batteries around town. The diesel engine when it is running would be more efficient because it would always only run at 1 specific RPM (to spin a generator). Regenerative braking would help, instead of blowing that power off as noise with my exhaust brake, put it back in the "tank". And, of course, when I run low on fuel, drop by Loves and in 5 minutes, pump 100's of KW of power back into my tank.
Diesel-electric, hydrogen-electric, gasoline-electric. But not battery-electric, that's a non-starter for heavy vehicles that are covering long distances (like many of us do often with an RV).
Just for one more "crazy" in the idea, thinking about plugging your 1MW pickup truck into the 50A outlet at an RV park to fill up? LOL. Do the math on that, hope you got the monthly rate, because 50A 220V is gonna take a long time to move 1,000KW of power. And that'll only get you another ~500-750 miles.
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02-03-2022, 11:43 AM #13
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More fun information about batteries. They are made out of hazardous materials, so when you spend $15000 for a new battery, what do you think happens to the old one. Also these batteries require more energy to produce than they ever give back in their lifetime. They save nothing and are much more polluting than fossil fuel. Oh and buy the way where do you think the electric comes from to charge them up?
Mal & Helen
With Mitzi our Yorkie
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02-03-2022, 01:07 PM #14
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What happens to the old battery?
If a dealer or Tesla service center replaced the battery, then the old battery gets shipped somewhere for recycling. If a wrecked EV gets sent to the junk yard, then it either gets sold for parts (I own two Tesla Model S battery modules purchased from a junk yard) to people with off-grid Solar systems, or it gets shipped out for recycling.
Just yesterday, I read an article describing an interview with JB Strauble, founder of Redwood Materials (Lithium Ion battery recyclers) where he stated that recycling Lithium Ion batteries is already profitable (not the business, but the process of recycling the batteries).
Consequently, with more and more batteries getting recycled, the Minerals used to make the batteries will get reused over and over again, eventually eliminating most of the requirement for mining new materials; much like the Lead Acid battery industry operates in the USA, 95% of all LA batteries are recycled.
As far as where the energy comes from to power the EV goes, the Electrical Grid in the US, and many, many, other countries is getting cleaner and cleaner every year due to more renewables being added to the system every year. As a matter of fact, South Australia just set a record of getting 100% of their energy from renewables for 6 1/2 days in late December 2021. The UK has achieved many days where they have not burned any coal from their one existing Coal fired power plant. In the US, we produced more energy in 2020 from renewables than we did from coal (20% Renewables vs 19% Coal).
Consequently, your EV is is operating on cleaner and cleaner electricity every year it exists.
Your statement about the batteries taking more energy to produce than they ever give back in their lifetime simply makes no sense. Producing batteries is simply a manufacturing process, sure, it takes energy to mine the materials and energy to make the steel that encases them, but at the end of the day they are simply a product. This comment seems to stem from the belief that it takes an inordinate amount of energy to mine the materials and make the minerals into a useful product, this is simply not true it takes a normal amount of mining and processing just like steel or cement would take.
Additionally, how much energy does it take to explore and drill for oil and natural gas?
Final thought: Batteries can be recycled, how do you recycle a gallon of gas or diesel?Last edited by SolarPoweredRV; 02-03-2022 at 01:11 PM.
David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
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02-03-2022, 01:36 PM #15
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Small difference, and it may not be universal, but EV batteries are typically Lithium Ion, Batteries like batttleborn are Lithium Iron Phosphate. ION chemistry can hold more power but are not as stable as Iron phosphate. ION has a higher chance of thermal runaway if something goes wrong.
@SolarPoweredRV I'm sure has better details.2021 Solitude 375 RES-R
2024 GMC Denali ultimate DRW
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02-03-2022, 02:02 PM #16
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You are correct. One thing to note: the batteries in an EV and your cell phone are the same chemistry. Lithium Ion. Just different configurations. If you remember the fiasco a few years ago with the Samsung Galaxy Note 7, burning up, that was due to the thin Lithium Ion batteries flexing and allowing the electrodes inside the battery to touch. The batteries in EVs are much bigger (wider) and have little more space between the electrodes and are much less prone to flexing. (I don't know about you, but I could flex a type 27 size battery...)
Li-ion batteries can use a number of different materials as electrodes. The most common combination is that of lithium cobalt oxide (cathode) and graphite (anode), which is most commonly found in portable electronic devices such as cellphones and laptops. Other cathode materials include lithium manganese oxide (used in hybrid electric and electric automobiles) and lithium iron phosphate. Li-ion batteries typically use ether (a class of organic compounds) as an electrolyte. (Taken from https://www.cei.washington.edu/educa...%20electrodes.
LiFePO4 batteries are a type of lithium battery built from lithium iron phosphate. The cycle life of a LiFePO4 battery is over 4x that of other lithium ion batteries. It’s also the safest lithium battery type on the market, safer than lithiom ion and other battery types.
Also, LiFePO4 batteries can not only reach 3,000-5,000 cycles or more, they can reach 100% depth of discharge (DOD).
Lithium iron phosphate has better thermal and structural stability over most all other battery types.
Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkMark & Mary. Full-timing across the USA (and Canada)!
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02-03-2022, 02:30 PM #17
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02-03-2022, 05:50 PM #18
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All true, however, it is worth noting that Tesla has started using LiFePo4 batteries in their "Standard Range" vehicles. This is due to the increase in energy density that LiFePo4 batteries have achieved in recent years, not to mention the lower cost of LiFePo4 batteries. Tesla also expects the LiFePo4 batteries to out perform the Lithium Ion batteries when it comes to battery degradation and duty cycle/longevity.
David and Peggy
2019 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.7L Diesel, Dually, Long Bed
Running with 20k Reese Goosebox (Love It) and Ford Factory "Puck" system.
Stopping with 8,000 lb Disc Brakes and Titan Hydraulic over Electric Brakes system.
Powering all this fun with 1200 Watts of Solar, two Tesla, Model S, battery modules, 24 volt Victron Inverter.
2018 Solitude 310 GK
Trailer tire mileage
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