LifeBlue Battery Low-Temp Heater Issue?

**xrated** · 12-05-2022, 04:44 PM

My first step would be to have a multimeter/volt meter ready to take a reading of the voltage coming from the Charger/Converter (C/C). Then have someone power it up and see what the voltage is when the heater starts up the "warming" process. Hold the leads on there until the warmer stops and see if there is in fact, voltage still there or if the C/C has shut off. If voltage is still there, it's pretty clearl that the battery or the internal circuitry of the battery, I should say, is where the problem is. Conversely, if the C/C voltage stops, there is some sort of issue with that part. When all of this is happening, is the C/C supplying power to anything else in the trailer?

**LanerC** · 12-05-2022, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by AMJF&FG

The thermostat is inside of the battery from what I understand, the app is just a bluetooth readout of things like SOC, temp, cycles, and messages from the internal BMS/thermostat etc. When the heater shuts down, the temperature reading has still not changed and is still in the teens or twenties or whatever it has been. So definitely still below the safe charging thresholds from what I understand.

I see, thanks for the clarification.

**AMJF&FG** · 12-05-2022, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by xrated

My first step would be to have a multimeter/volt meter ready to take a reading of the voltage coming from the Charger/Converter (C/C). Then have someone power it up and see what the voltage is when the heater starts up the "warming" process. Hold the leads on there until the warmer stops and see if there is in fact, voltage still there or if the C/C has shut off. If voltage is still there, it's pretty clearl that the battery or the internal circuitry of the battery, I should say, is where the problem is. Conversely, if the C/C voltage stops, there is some sort of issue with that part. When all of this is happening, is the C/C supplying power to anything else in the trailer?

Thanks. Generally nothing else is running now that I have been specifically trying to test this. I will give it a go with a multimeter and see what happens. From what I am reading so far it sounds like there is not some other aspect/component/feature in play here that I am not aware of. It really is just either the current is there or not for whatever reason, or there is an issue with the battery if so.

**xrated** · 12-05-2022, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by AMJF&FG

Thanks. Generally nothing else is running now that I have been specifically trying to test this. I will give it a go with a multimeter and see what happens. From what I am reading so far it sounds like there is not some other aspect/component/feature in play here that I am not aware of. It really is just either the current is there or not for whatever reason, or there is an issue with the battery if so.

Remember, you are using the meter to check VOLTAGE......not current.....so make sure that the meter is set to the correct setting to check voltage.

**IBEW Sparky** · 12-06-2022, 03:50 AM

@AMJF&FG

As stated by @xrated make sure you have the multi meter set to the correct function for what you are trying to read, Voltage vs. Amperage, ACV vs. DCV , etc...

I'm strictly a lead acid battery user and I'm not at all familiar with the charging characteristics of lithium batteries, or batteries with built-in heaters. That being said your comment about the generator power loading & unloading tells me that something is definitely cycling on and off to cause this. If you can, turn off any other loads while testing. As stated, have someone else power it up to check the output status of the C/C while you take readings, doing so on both shore power and generator power to see if there are any differences. You mentioned that this battery is on the tongue of the TT, is it possible that your cabling is wired through an auto reset 12vdc breaker and exceeding its capabilities when the internal battery heater is kicking on? Is it possible that you're C/C might be working just fine and the load being dropped is from the auto reset breaker doing its job? Let us know what you come up with.

**AMJF&FG** · 12-06-2022, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by IBEW Sparky

@AMJF&FG

As stated by @xrated make sure you have the multi meter set to the correct function for what you are trying to read, Voltage vs. Amperage, ACV vs. DCV , etc...

I'm strictly a lead acid battery user and I'm not at all familiar with the charging characteristics of lithium batteries, or batteries with built-in heaters. That being said your comment about the generator power loading & unloading tells me that something is definitely cycling on and off to cause this. If you can, turn off any other loads while testing. As stated, have someone else power it up to check the output status of the C/C while you take readings, doing so on both shore power and generator power to see if there are any differences. You mentioned that this battery is on the tongue of the TT, is it possible that your cabling is wired through an auto reset 12vdc breaker and exceeding its capabilities when the internal battery heater is kicking on? Is it possible that you're C/C might be working just fine and the load being dropped is from the auto reset breaker doing its job? Let us know what you come up with.

Thanks. Yes, everything else is off while I have been testing this. What would be the best practice with the multimeter, as far as where to hold the probes etc. to ensure that I am getting a reading from the C/C, and not something coming back from the battery itself? Or is that not a concern in this situation?

As to the possibility of an auto-reset breaker, is any other way to determine if one is present other than looking for it? And if not, is there a place that it usually resides or another good place to start looking for it?

Thanks again!

**xrated** · 12-06-2022, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by AMJF&FG

Thanks. Yes, everything else is off while I have been testing this. What would be the best practice with the multimeter, as far as where to hold the probes etc. to ensure that I am getting a reading from the C/C, and not something coming back from the battery itself? Or is that not a concern in this situation?

As to the possibility of an auto-reset breaker, is any other way to determine if one is present other than looking for it? And if not, is there a place that it usually resides or another good place to start looking for it?

Thanks again!

Put the leads on the battery terminals itself....if they are easy to get to. They will be reading some voltage, based on how much the battery is charged. Then, when the C/C is turned on and the battery BMS is calling for the heater to come on, you will see a different voltage on the meter. I may not change much.....maybe a 1/2 volt or some other slightly larger or smaller number. When that happens, you know the C/C. is powering things up for the heater. Then, 10 or 15 seconds later....when the heater stops working, if that voltage stays the same, you know it not the converter turning off. If the voltage goes back to the original voltage reading you took before turning on the the converter, you will know that it is something converter related.

**SolarPoweredRV** · 12-07-2022, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by AMJF&FG

Hello All. I recently purchased a LifeBlue 200 AH Low-Temp battery. Its internal heaters, which are supposed to draw from the charging source, do not stay on for more than 10-15 seconds. I have spoken with LifeBlue (which seems to be one person at a shop in AZ as far as I can tell), and he tells me that while he can not say what the issue might be, he feels it is indicative of the charger/converter somehow cutting off power to the battery, as the heaters need a constant 14 amps to run. The general time line is: Connect to power source, battery with display (via LifeBlue app) an error stating "Low-temp while charging", followed by "Battery Warming". At this point the app shows ~20+ amps into the battery. After 10-15 seconds, the message will state "Battery Warming Stop" followed by "Low temp while charging" At this point, with the temperature not having changed even a tenth of a degree, the amps will drop to zero on the app, and the status will revert to standby.

The power source is not the issue, as this is happening while plugged into either generators and shore power. Does not make a difference. The charger is a WFCO WF-8955LiS. I have spoken with tech support at WFCO, and they confirm there is no reason the the converter would suddenly cut off or interrupt the current/amps flowing to the battery. The converter performs perfectly in every other situation.

Back with LifeBlue, they want me to ship them the battery to test it, and have even sent me new shipping packaging to send it back to them, great. HOWEVER, if they determine there is nothing wrong with it, I will have to pay them back for shipping both ways before they will send back the battery which I have already paid them for. So will have to lay out more cash to get back an expensive battery that still will not be working for me at least, or basically be out the battery entirely I suppose if they wont ship it back to me. Given that they have already stated that they don't believe there is a problem and that the great majority of their returns do not result in the finding of a problem (which they alone get to decide whether or not there is a problem...), this seems like a pretty big gamble.

So my question after all of this: Is there something here that I am missing? Is there some other aspect of this system that is causing this that I do not understand? LifeBlue just keeps telling me they have thousands of these in the field and no one else has reported this issue, that many are using this WFCO converter with it successfully. WFCO tech support (which has been great) has said they have not run into this either. If anyone has any more perspective here would really appreciate it. Thanks!Attachment 44078

While all the above suggestions are great, you also might be bumping up against a quirk in the WFCO Converter itself.

NOTE: regardless of whether you are on Shore Power or Generator, all the power going to your battery goes through the WFCO Converter.

I would suggest you purchase a "High Power" Lithium battery charger from Amazon capable of charging at 60 amps and attach that directly to the battery. Plug the charger directly into your Shore Power connection (or even the Generator) bypassing the WFCO Converter entirely. The reason I suggest getting a charger capable of 60 amps is because your 55 amp WFCO Converter might be getting overloaded by an initial surge of power demanded by the heating elements inside the battery. Consequently, your WFCO Converter is simply shutting down because it is over loaded and is trying to protect itself. I realize the "High Power" charger is only 5 amps more than the WFCO Converter you currently have I just think you are coming across a WFCO quirk that the manufacturer simply has not designed the Converter to address. Eliminating the WFCO Converter could pinpoint your issue to either the Converter, or the battery.

Note: I was going to recommend an 80 - 100 amp charger, however this 60 amp charger is the highest amp charger I could find:

https://www.amazon.com/Maintainer-Ad...s%2C88&sr=8-51

Good luck and let us know what you find out.

**IBEW Sparky** · 12-07-2022, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by AMJF&FG

Thanks. Yes, everything else is off while I have been testing this. What would be the best practice with the multimeter, as far as where to hold the probes etc. to ensure that I am getting a reading from the C/C, and not something coming back from the battery itself? Or is that not a concern in this situation?

As to the possibility of an auto-reset breaker, is any other way to determine if one is present other than looking for it? And if not, is there a place that it usually resides or another good place to start looking for it?

Thanks again!

@xrated has given you good info on getting started on troubleshooting with a multimeter. As for the location of the auto reset breaker they are usually mounted up front near the battery on the frame, or sometimes in a storage compartment near the battery. There are several types/amperage sizes but most likely it would look similar to this type in the link below....and it might not have the cover on it.

RKURCK 12V 50A Circuit Breaker Automatic Reset for Automotive RV Marine Boat with Protective Red Boot Cover https://a.co/d/accP0Ii

**AMJF&FG** · 12-07-2022, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by xrated

Put the leads on the battery terminals itself....if they are easy to get to. They will be reading some voltage, based on how much the battery is charged. Then, when the C/C is turned on and the battery BMS is calling for the heater to come on, you will see a different voltage on the meter. I may not change much.....maybe a 1/2 volt or some other slightly larger or smaller number. When that happens, you know the C/C. is powering things up for the heater. Then, 10 or 15 seconds later....when the heater stops working, if that voltage stays the same, you know it not the converter turning off. If the voltage goes back to the original voltage reading you took before turning on the the converter, you will know that it is something converter related.

Well there is still voltage all the way through the process. I ran the battery down to internal readings of 38% SOC and 13.1V to make sure there was a clear need for full charging. With everything off and power unplugged it indeed starts at 13.1V on the multimeter. Upon plugging in, there is an immediate jump to 13.5V (along with the internal reading of ~20 amps coming in as it presumably tries to charge). After a few seconds (again, presumably as the battery decides it is too cold, stops trying to charge and amps drop to zero) the reading jumps to 14.6V while the 'Battery Warming' message appears. The 14.6V remains through this period, through 'Warming Stop' and another 'Low temp while charging' error, and remains at 14.6V continually until unplugged. That pattern was consistent, with the only variation being an occasional very momentary return to 13.5V between 'Warming stop' and 'Low temp while charging'. I take this to mean that I am back to thinking the problem is inside the battery? I have to assume that while reading 14.6, it is neither charging nor heating, as there is no current reading, as there is any other time it is charging, the messages indicate the heater is off as well as the fact that the temperature reading did not change even a tenth of a degree while leaving it alone in this state for 15 minutes (and of course several hours in previous attempts without the multimeter).