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  1. #11
    Long Hauler geotex1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky12 View Post
    Thanks, this is EXACTLY the information I am looking for. I thought it would be sufficient to take my trailer back to the dealer and they would contact me in a timely manner when it was ready to pick up. I have the case numbers from both GD and Lippert, but Lippert is only authorizing 2 hours labor to facilitate the repair. I informed them that this was not adequate. I will be contacting them again.
    After-the-sale support from dealers is generally abysmal. They definitely do not proactively push, and if you ask around enough you will finds the folks that work the warranty aspects at dealer end are the most turned over positions!

    Did Lippert authorize 2 hours for inspection or repair? Not sure which sense you mean with facilitate - inspect & arrange or actually implement. Former would be reasonable, and latter says they know exactly what's broken. Lippert has been challenged with poor quality welds...

    FYI - camber measurements are quick and easy and no special prep needed.
    Rob & Nikki + Cloverfield
    2020 Grand Design Solitude S-Class 3350RL
    2015 RAM 3500 Longhorn Laramie Crew Cab, Long Bed, 4x4 Dually Cummins/AISIN

    Mountains of Pennsylvania

  2. #12
    Site Sponsor Sparky12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geotex1 View Post
    After-the-sale support from dealers is generally abysmal. They definitely do not proactively push, and if you ask around enough you will finds the folks that work the warranty aspects at dealer end are the most turned over positions!

    Did Lippert authorize 2 hours for inspection or repair? Not sure which sense you mean with facilitate - inspect & arrange or actually implement. Former would be reasonable, and latter says they know exactly what's broken. Lippert has been challenged with poor quality welds...

    FYI - camber measurements are quick and easy and no special prep needed.
    I e-mailed Lippert again for clarification. They are authorizing 2 hours labor PLUS a new jack and bracket, no return of old parts required. Due to GD dealer relations staff turnover, I suspect my dealer never received this info. Even though I forwarded the e-mail to them. The shop is closed until Jan 4. We will see what happens then?
    Peter Hoemsen
    Prince Albert SK Canada
    2022 337 RLS
    2021 GMC 2500 Duramax L5P

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky12 View Post
    On June 21 we picked up our first brand new fifth wheel. We had a 2017 Rockwood TT previously. Drove it from the dealer to our home 90 miles away. Backed it into the driveway, disconnected, chocked, levelled side to side. When I hit auto level, it lifted the driver's side wheels off the ground slightly, maybe 1/2 inch and I noticed the base of the jack was moving outboard at a slight angle. I had placed 3 lego blocks under each jack. It did not level perfectly, but it was good enough to start discovering all the goodies in our new trailer. I did some reading the next day and did a manual level and a zero point calibration. On subsequent trips, it levelled fine but I noticed the jack was pushing out a little more each time. We took 3 short camping trips last summer and on September 21, I took it back to the dealer after sending them photos of the jack.
    The tech that looked at it first said he had never seen that, the frame is twisting when the jack extends and makes ground contact. I asked him what we could do to fix it, he said if it was his trailer he would demand a replacement trailer. I was in shock. He advised me to contact GDRV because it would help speed up a claim and their warranty manager would submit the pre-auth to get the ball rolling.

    I established a line of communication with GDRV customer service rep on that same day, Sept 21, and have had numerous e-mails and phone conversations with her.

    On Oct 12, I contacted Lippert, they had a case #, but were waiting for clarification from GDRV dealer relations. On Oct 12, I contacted the dealer relations person and he told me he was waiting to hear back from the dealer. On Oct 14, I e-mailed the dealer relations person back and his terse reply was to "contact customer relations". I contacted my person at customer relations and she informed me that the info in the file stated that "it is under management review and it does not appear to be a manufacturing defect, but damage". I contacted the dealer again, he was waiting to hear from his representative. On Oct 23, I called the dealer and he informed me that his rep was in Mexico. It was somewhere around this time I found out the dealer relations person I had spoken to and e-mailed was no longer with the company. Dealer informed me that there was an RV convention coming up in Vegas in November and he would speak to his upper management contact during this convention.

    On Oct 25 I contacted a trailer frame repair shop in the dealer's city. I sent him photos of the jack/frame, over the phone the shop foreman informed me that he was familiar with frame twisting problems like this (he had not inspected my trailer, yet), and that they had two solutions:

    1) a $6000 fix that would be guaranteed to never go out of alignment or
    2) a $2000 fix that would solve the problem but may need subsequent alignments in the future

    On this date I also contacted a Regional Service Manager at GDRV, she wanted to see the video that the dealer said he was going to take. I said I would contact him to send it to her. I then found out that no video had been taken. I sent photos to customer service at Lippert.

    On Oct 27, dealer phoned me and said that they were sending more photos to GDRV and were trying to get them and Lippert to agree to warranty repairs. I informed the dealer that I would prefer to have it repaired locally as opposed to being sent back to the factory.

    Oct 28 - received an e-mail from Lippert stating that they would authorize 2 hours labor, one hour to remove the jack and one hour to repair the bracket.

    fast forward to November 15 - I phoned the dealer to inquire as to the conversation he had at the Vegas RV convention Nov 8-12. It never happened. I then re-contacted the trailer frame repair shop and asked if he would go look at my trailer and come up with a repair plan. On Friday Nov 19, he went to the dealer. On Friday Oct 26, I received an e-mailed quote for the repair - $9935.21. This represents approx. 12.5% of the purchase price of the trailer.

    Nov 30 - I e-mailed the quote to the Regional Service Manager, she replied by saying that "warranty refused, not defect, owner damage".

    I phoned GDRV customer service and the Regional Service Manager answered, which was surprising, same person that had e-mailed me back. She informed me that she had contacted the trailer frame repair shop and was awaiting details of the intended repair.

    Dec 17 - I e-mailed the dealer and he responded " I am reaching out to my contact as a last hope to receive warranty".

    So, that's where we are at. The trailer has sat on their lot for over THREE months and we are absolutely no closer to getting it fixed.
    I apologize for the long story, I have eight pages of notes relating every phone call, face to face contact and e-mail. This was the abridged version.

    Attachment 38242

    I am looking for suggestions from anyone who may have experienced this problem. Technical solutions etc. I am also concerned as to how this might affect my suspension, premature tire wear?

    Thanks,
    I would send an email with pictures to Don Clark, President at Grand Design. He should be made aware of your problem. Here is his email address.
    [email protected]
    2018 Reflection 303RLS, PullRite 16K Superglide, 2022 GMC 2500HD Duramax Denali.

  4. #14
    Seasoned Camper Mulligan's Avatar
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    Cool For what it’s worth

    You have done a fanomial job of documenting your situation…you have been very patient..more than I would be.

    Some addition suggestions besides what your doing already.

    1 Contact your insurance company that has the policy for your trailer. Make a claim for damage.


    2. Vehicle owners who believe a safety-related defect is affecting their vehicle should report the problem to Transport Canada. This can be done by completing Transport Canada's Defect Complaint Form or by calling 1-800-333-0510.

    https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur....aspx?lang=eng

    3 Contact The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the USA
    https://www.nhtsa.gov/about-nhtsa/contact-us

    What have you got to lose. As always everting in writing and cc everybody. Time to ramp it up a notch.


    When I bought my grand design I knew it was like buying the best house in a crappy neighbourhood….and remember “ a trailer is a trailer is a trailer.”

    Good luck happy new year.

    Coops
    2021 Reflection 303 RLS
    2012 Ram 3500 Cummins short box Crew Cab
    Pull Rite 16k SuperGlide
    Kamloops BC 🍁

  5. #15
    Fireside Member
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    In looking at your picture, it appears there was a significant side force put on the jack at some point to cause it to twist the frame like that. Any chance the jack was down or left low at some point of time while the trailer was being towed? That could cause the pressure on the frame to twist it like that. It’s also possible some of the frame cross supports are either missing or the welds broke. To see that you would need to remove the bottom covering. No matter what, there had to be some significant side force on the jack to get it to twist the frame like that. In looking at my 303, I don’t believe the frame would twist like that under normal use of lifting and lowering the trailer when parked unless there is a significant defect in the frame steel itself. A close inspection of the frame and internal supports should identify if there is a weakness in the metal.
    2018 Reflection 303RLS, PullRite 16K Superglide, 2022 GMC 2500HD Duramax Denali.

  6. #16
    Long Hauler huntindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadiansteelman View Post
    In looking at your picture, it appears there was a significant side force put on the jack at some point to cause it to twist the frame like that. Any chance the jack was down or left low at some point of time while the trailer was being towed? That could cause the pressure on the frame to twist it like that. It’s also possible some of the frame cross supports are either missing or the welds broke. To see that you would need to remove the bottom covering. No matter what, there had to be some significant side force on the jack to get it to twist the frame like that. In looking at my 303, I don’t believe the frame would twist like that under normal use of lifting and lowering the trailer when parked unless there is a significant defect in the frame steel itself. A close inspection of the frame and internal supports should identify if there is a weakness in the metal.
    I zoomed in on the jack using my image software. There are no marks or damage on the jack to indicate an impact from beiing towed while extended.... I actually did this on a previous TT, so I know what I am looking at.

    That being said the magnification revealed other things. The frame rail is as the OP stated bending out quite a bit, And the water tank is in this location. That means that the supports for the tank are no longer attached (if they ever were) to the frame. Now there are several supports, and I cannot tell from the pic just where they are, and if all of the supports are compromised.....But that is not good. Someone really needs to drop that coroplast to inspect it. Preferably with the owner present to take pictures.
    Last edited by huntindog; 01-02-2022 at 08:03 AM.
    2021 398M Full Body Paint 8k axles. LRH tires. Disc brakes.
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  7. #17
    Site Sponsor
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    I would be inclined to get an attorney and advise ALL concerned that your law suit will cost them far more than the $10,000 they are estimating! Be sure you name the individuals as high in the companies as possible!

  8. #18
    Site Sponsor Sparky12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadiansteelman View Post
    I would send an email with pictures to Don Clark, President at Grand Design. He should be made aware of your problem. Here is his email address.
    [email protected]
    I have sent an e-mail to Jerry McCarthy, I received the "out of office until Jan. 3 reply". I will send one to Don Clark as well.

    Thank you!
    Peter Hoemsen
    Prince Albert SK Canada
    2022 337 RLS
    2021 GMC 2500 Duramax L5P

  9. #19
    Site Sponsor Sparky12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
    You have done a fanomial job of documenting your situation…you have been very patient..more than I would be.

    Some addition suggestions besides what your doing already.

    1 Contact your insurance company that has the policy for your trailer. Make a claim for damage.


    2. Vehicle owners who believe a safety-related defect is affecting their vehicle should report the problem to Transport Canada. This can be done by completing Transport Canada's Defect Complaint Form or by calling 1-800-333-0510.

    https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur....aspx?lang=eng

    3 Contact The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the USA
    https://www.nhtsa.gov/about-nhtsa/contact-us

    What have you got to lose. As always everting in writing and cc everybody. Time to ramp it up a notch.


    When I bought my grand design I knew it was like buying the best house in a crappy neighbourhood….and remember “ a trailer is a trailer is a trailer.”

    Good luck happy new year.

    Coops
    Excellent advice! Thanks.

    I will contact my insurance company, but I'm not sure how they will handle this problem due to the trailer still being on warranty. It won't hurt to try.
    Peter Hoemsen
    Prince Albert SK Canada
    2022 337 RLS
    2021 GMC 2500 Duramax L5P

  10. #20
    Site Sponsor Sparky12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadiansteelman View Post
    In looking at your picture, it appears there was a significant side force put on the jack at some point to cause it to twist the frame like that. Any chance the jack was down or left low at some point of time while the trailer was being towed? That could cause the pressure on the frame to twist it like that. It’s also possible some of the frame cross supports are either missing or the welds broke. To see that you would need to remove the bottom covering. No matter what, there had to be some significant side force on the jack to get it to twist the frame like that. In looking at my 303, I don’t believe the frame would twist like that under normal use of lifting and lowering the trailer when parked unless there is a significant defect in the frame steel itself. A close inspection of the frame and internal supports should identify if there is a weakness in the metal.
    There was never any damage like that while the trailer was in my possession. As I said, I pushed the auto-level button and the twisting started, minor at first, but a little worse every time.
    I agree, all other people we met at campgrounds that have GD, are shocked by what they see. I use the Beech Lane Camper levelling system. If this trailer had been set up on very uneven ground, wouldn't both jacks have twisted the frame? The passenger side is perfect. I am starting to think that there is a bad weld or a cross member missing? Something like that.
    If this particular 5th wheel was manufactured to spec, then EVERY 2022 trailer that left the factory would have this problem. We did nothing wrong.
    Peter Hoemsen
    Prince Albert SK Canada
    2022 337 RLS
    2021 GMC 2500 Duramax L5P

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