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05-16-2022, 11:03 AM #11
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One thing about the boating industry is, they know there is a little more at stake when you take one of their products out. If something goes wrong a few miles off shore is not like someone is going to be passing you by soon. So they take the time to engineer their products a little better. It wouldn’t cost that much money or time to standardize some of their manufacturing processes. If they built good wire bundles and harnesses that would solve a lot of the electrical issues. Not to mention save on wire, when I dropped my corroplastic this year I found two coils of the heavy gauge wire that runs to the leveling system. Obviously the wire was to long and instead of cutting it shorter they just threw it in the belly. There had to be at least 10 feet in each of those coils, and at the cost of that wire what a waste. There were many other instances where they did that in the belly. Then there were other instances where the wire was just barely long enough and could short out over time. The same was true with the plumbing, it was run helter skelter with it dropping below the insulation and rubbing on the frame rails. Just cleaning up those items would solve a lot of issues we deal with on these rigs.I agree with Dadeo6472 the boating industry does a better job overall on their product lines, cheap or expensive. It wouldn’t be difficult or expensive to incorporate some of their practices into the travel trailer industry.
2020 303RLS
2018 Dodge 2500 Cummins
BW Companion
Retired and loving it.
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05-16-2022, 12:28 PM #12
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Keep buying them built the way they are and they will keep building them that way. I’ve never seen another group of people defend anything the way rv owners defend rv quality control. The rv industry has zero reason to change. They have jacked the prices up astronomically, quality certainly hasn’t improved and they can’t keep up with demand.
2013 Ram Cummins 3500
2019 GD 303RLS-SOLD
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05-16-2022, 12:56 PM #13
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I assume you no longer own a trailer. I've read this so often over the years, that you shouldn't buy any of this junk. However, how long do you realistically think it would take for the trailer builders to change their methods/quality? 3 years? 5 years? Longer? What do people do in the meantime? Just do without? Suppose it takes more than 5 years? I have no desire to wait several years, and while I do agree that the industry could certainly do better quality-wise, I'm still going RV'ing. But I also don't complain about it, and then go do it anyway.
Howard and Peggy
2019 Momentum 351M, and 2018 RAM Cummins dually 6-speed.
His: 1999 Honda Interceptor
Hers: 2013 Spyder ST-S
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05-16-2022, 01:05 PM #14
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In terms of special licensing/training in order to be able to legally tow an RV, Im going to go out on a limb and suggest that probably 90+% of the people towing RV's today are "self taught". My reason for pointing that out is everyone learns "somewhere/somehow". In my case, I learned decades ago how to pull trailers of all different classes/sizes. Did I have official and professional training? Nope. Did I have any major incidents? Nope. Am I in the minority? I doubt it.
As far as quality is concerned, I agree there is no incentive for the industry to change as long as the demand is there. And unfortunately, regardless of what we think about the quality, there are 10 people lining up behind each one of us, ready to buy. So, there's virtually no incentive to change. Im with Hoopy Frood. I don't necessarily like it, but I want to go RVing now, and as a result, I accept it. I don't complain about it, I just fix what I can, when I can, to make it better.
MikeIm Mike Willoughby, and I approve this message.
2017 Ram 3500 CTD (aka FRAM)
2019 Grand Design Reflection 367BHS
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05-16-2022, 03:34 PM #15
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Correct I sold our last one last year. I have owned 8 trailers over 25+ years starting in my early 20’s. Although I certainly miss the traveling and owning an rv I had enough of dealing with issues (across several different brands). These aren’t small simple fixes. These were significant issues including frame failures, shoddy coverups by the manufactures along with all the general poor workmanship. I have seen the quality continue to degrade significantly over the years. I certainly don’t think me not buying one has any impact on the companies but I choose to no longer participate.
The biggest issues now are supply and demand as well as limited diversity in manufacturing companies. When all the parts supply companies are owned by just a few there is no competition. Same as rv makers. Very few individual companies just big corporations. It will change when the consumer demands it changes. Until then it will stay like it is.2013 Ram Cummins 3500
2019 GD 303RLS-SOLD
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05-16-2022, 03:37 PM #16
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- Mar 2020
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Speaking from 50 years of boating I should point out that while small cruisers CAN go off shore, we are talking about small cruisers in the sub 35 foot class here. These are certainly not off-shore fishing boats and they seldom venture very far from shore. Those that do are put into a more expensive insurance risk class. And generally small cruisers stay in busy waters, and a GPS aided tow is a mere cell phone or VHF radio emergency button away. But there certainly is a history and culture in the boat building industry that says build it as if it was going off shore without easy rescue.
As for wear and tear, cruisers have to deal with heavy seas while RVs have to deal with potholed washboard interstates at much higher speeds. RVs are far more likely to crash into another vehicle than a boat. But boat builders do a pretty good job of making their boats tough enough to endure that beating. My view is that RV builders don't do a good job of making sure their products can deal with what our roads will give them. Does anyone want to talk about the junk tires that get stuck on at the factory as an example of how poorly RVs are equipped to deal with our roads??!!
I think that the core problem with the RV industry is that they really don't understand pride in workmanship and design. There is no history of elegant design and hull building. There is no equivalent term in the RV industry for "ship-shape". In fact it sounds silly to think of an RV being road-worthy as well as sleek and elegant in design at the same time, although that is exactly what a boat should be.
Then there is this....
Even small cruiser buyers and sellers expect that the craft will likely have to be inspected before the sale goes thru. The term everyone uses is "Marine Survey". Used boats for sure, and new boats over a certain length and/or cost point. Most marine insurance firms and banks will insist on one before the sale is financed or insured. Have you EVER heard of such a requirement for an RV? I haven't.Doug, Patti and our puppy Leo are from upstate NY.
Imagine 2019 XLS 18RBE
2021 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel
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05-16-2022, 03:52 PM #17
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Agreed. Which is why my next trailer (if there is a next trailer) will NOT be built in the Elkhart area. I think industry consolidation and concentration is a huge part of the problem. And I think it's a problem which can only be solved by customers buying alternatives, and not just leaving completely. The industry is in a downward quality spiral.
Quality will only improve when there is at least one well very financed alternative whose dedicated to building quality standardized RVs at a reasonable price, as Toyota and Honda did to the US car industry in the 1970s. There are a few smaller alternatives building all fiberglass units (like Escape and Bigfoot), but I don't see them as that much better, and they certainly are not moderately priced.Doug, Patti and our puppy Leo are from upstate NY.
Imagine 2019 XLS 18RBE
2021 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel
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05-16-2022, 05:29 PM #18
I have done alright. First RV was a 1975 Prowler purchased for 2300.00 in 1994. Sold in 2000 for 3300.00. Second one was a 2001 Fleetwood Wilderness purchased new in 2000 for 15,500.00, sold in 2010 for 8500.00. Third RV was a 2010 Palomino Sabre purchased new for 24,500.00 in 2010, sold in 2020 for 16,000.00. Present RV is a 2021 Momentum 398M purchased new in 2020 for 94,000.00.RVing is not how you make money, it is how you spend it. That said, how you go about it can make a huge difference over time. I have never had an RV payment, and rarely a automobile payment. And I do NOT do trade ins. I always sell privately.
As for how they are built, I generally find them just a starting point for how I want them to end up. I camp differently from most, so any mass produced RV is not what I want straight from the factory. So I just find one that checks the boxes I am unwilling to change when choosing what to buy.Last edited by huntindog; 05-16-2022 at 05:32 PM.
2021 398M Full Body Paint 8k axles. LRH tires. Disc brakes.
Two bathrooms, no waiting 155 fresh, 104 black, 104 grey 1860 watts solar.
800AH BattleBorn Batteries No campgrounds 100% boondocking
2020 Silverado High Country 3500 dually crewcab Duramax Allison
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05-21-2022, 03:45 PM #19
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I agree with you, there is NO excuse for what goes on in the RV business! I was in the auto business for 30 years! I have seen many times where to save 1 cent or a nickel they would make an inferior part! Most do not realize how inexpensive it is to make a quality part when you are dealing with the volume that large companies buy at and volume they build at! I will give you an example on my first trailer. It had screws on all the exterior that were painted with a cheap paint. Within about 5 years they were rusting and rust stains running all down the side of the trailer! I went to a supply house bought a box of stainless screws and replaced every screw on the outside of my trailer for about 4 dollars! Their cost would probably be 2 dollars! So for about 2 dollars they could have made a superior product on a 30 thousand dollar trailer! Do you think you would have balked at buying the trailer for 30,002 dollars? I saw a recall on autos to the expense of 6 million dollars over trying to save 1 CENT on a snap ring! Bean counters have no business dictating what goes into the production of anything!!! Making a superior product does not cost as much as many would think when done at volume and buying at volume!
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05-21-2022, 04:27 PM #20
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In Texas, if your Truck/Trailer combo GCVWR exceeds 26,001 lbs (so long as the trailer exceeds 10k lbs) you need a Class A DL. You can get an RV Class A (so you don’t need a full CDL), but the driving skills test is fun, especially learning and proving you can parallel park.
Momentum/Solitude TSB 24-001 for...
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