Nervous about load / pulling

[uwskier]

Not say this to anyone in particular, but something to consider. Along with the obvious safety issues of a lightweight truck at its payload capacity limits controlling the “train” in accident avoidance or potential quick stops, there are other areas to consider with the 1500 series lighter truck. Is the alternator stock or a beefier one like our Ram 2500. How many leafs / springs under the rear axel, what are the gear ratios for the transmission, is their increased cooling radiator capacity and possibly for the transmission. All these issues are advantages of the 2500 series and have absolutely nothing to do with towing ability or capacity. When I see post which are towing ability focused I find it’s someone who has bought into marketing mantra these dealers use to reel buyers in. To ignore payload abilities is not a good thing

Lastly and also very important is what happens in the long run with the truck screaming along on uphill grades at 4500 plus rpm over long periods of time vs loafing along on the same grade in a better gear.

You will see in many posts “ I have been doing this (1500) towing for years with no issues. “ “ you don’t even know it’s behind you” and other phrases. You cannot judge the extra strain placed on the frame or suspension in the beginning years of the truck of a “train” with an at or over payload capacity setup. This kind of gradual pressure put on by this setup is rarely evident in the first 5-7 years of the trucks life ( the warrenty period) . The comments should be taken with a lick of salt as they don’t reflect a long range ownership. Again these issues are related to payload vs towing capabilities.

My next truck will be a 3/4 ton gasser, no doubt, but I don't worry at all about revving the half ton. We use these same engines in the watersports industry and run them at 4000 RPM for hours and hours and hours with nothing but 3/4 throttle or better holeshots every time. The duty cycle of this use case is much more abusive than the occasional uphill pull that lasts maybe 2-3 minutes. On auxiliary cooling, just watch your gauges. I tow here in the AZ summer and even with that I've never seen my trans temp above 210F. It lives around 190F year-round driving unloaded.

If you're within your payload, you don't need to run out and buy a new truck if your half ton is newer than around 2014 is my point. Just wait until the next replacement cycle to upgrade if you're comfortable with that.

[NB Canada]

My next truck will be a 3/4 ton gasser, no doubt, but I don't worry at all about revving the half ton. We use these same engines in the watersports industry and run them at 4000 RPM for hours and hours and hours with nothing but 3/4 throttle or better holeshots every time. The duty cycle of this use case is much more abusive than the occasional uphill pull that lasts maybe 2-3 minutes. On auxiliary cooling, just watch your gauges. I tow here in the AZ summer and even with that I've never seen my trans temp above 210F. It lives around 190F year-round driving unloaded.

If you're within your payload, you don't need to run out and buy a new truck if your half ton is newer than around 2014 is my point. Just wait until the next replacement cycle to upgrade if you're comfortable with that.

It is funny when people think a 1500 will self destruct getting close to a magical number
It doesn’t hurt a gas engine to rev. Short term or long term.
I do get irritated when the word “safe” or “safer” is used. It implies I am acting unsafe and I am not by any means
I agree with you if you are within the numbers you are good to go

[RV Sailor]

What you say makes sense except revving an engine again goes to the towing capacity side of the equation. Be that as it may in my experience a 2-3 minute rev at 4500/5000 rpm won’t affect things but the Easter and western grades are great than that.

The items I listed are about payload capacity and affect the suspension.
Many are long range. I understand the cost of buying a new truck is not in the budget. These blogs are for information for many others, some in the same position as you, but many are buying new trucks or upgrading their tow vehicles. Very little thought is given to the long term suspension effects of payload. They aren’t easily measured until something fails.

Many people put the cart ****** backwards and try to buy their camper beyond the limits of the towing vehicle and get hooking into that towing capacity mantra.

Lastly I will mention from an insurance standpoint. I work in the industry investigating claims. I never ask what the towing capacity of the truck was in the accident or claim. However I ALWAYS ask the payload capability and ascertain whether the tow vehicle was pulling a load exceeding the vehicles legally printed specifications. I rarely has issues in this regard with 2500/ 3500 series trucks. I see many claims where in a 1500 series truck they were over their payload limits. This information can be used in payouts for a claim as well as whether my company will continue insuring the vehicle.

This ugly side of things many times is a complete shock for light truck owners. They retort that’s it’s rated at this insane number of towing capacity which means zero. What’s funny is many contractors and people who use their trucks for business are acutely aware of payload capacity.

Really people should think about buying a trailer that exceeds their current payload capacity and hide behind I only use it infrequently, I use it for short trips, I can afford a new truck. Truth is when an accident occurs really isn’t related to how far you drive it or how often. Accidents can occur at any time as can blowouts deer avoidance.

I’m not criticizing just post this as food for thought. Many here who read the blogs are not fully aware of how much or the effect of pulling a weight over the vehicles capacity. Many of my friends pull with 1500s.in my experience once the trailer dry weight reaches 7500-8000 lbs you have reached the upper limit it exceeded its payload capacity. Many love all sorts of convince features which generally lowers the towing vehicles payload capacity. Diesel engine one liwe this figure compared to gas engines. This number is posted on the door jamb. Adding air pillows etc can redistribute the weight but doesn’t change it.

If you are eventually going to upgrade or go larger it doesn’t make sense to start with a truck which you’ll outgrow at the same time as you get larger trailers

[RV Sailor]

It is funny when people think a 1500 will self destruct getting close to a magical number
It doesn’t hurt a gas engine to rev. Short term or long term.
I do get irritated when the word “safe” or “safer” is used. It implies I am acting unsafe and I am not by any means
I agree with you if you are within the numbers you are good to go

Safe is a correct term if you operate within the prescribed perameters for your tow vehicle. If you don’t then IMHO you are not. As and insurance adjuster I have seen claims disputed when the vehicles thresholds are not complied with. These thresholds are not arbitrary numbers but numbers affixed for •safe” operation.

When a claim is decided if in the option of the adjuster and many times the courts if you exceed the payload threshold you can be held responsible.

It’s kinda like the speed limit. You are either under it or you are over it. There is no taking in to account how you feel whether you’ve operated in a safe matter., I realize that it can be emotion laden someone operates in an unsafe manner as no one wants to be tagged with that determination.
It’s not based on feelings just metrics.

Therefore I believe safe is the correct determination using payload capability as a metric. If you don’t exceed it you are therefore ok. If you do it’s a violation therefore unsafe.

[NB Canada]

Safe is a correct term if you operate within the prescribed perameters for your tow vehicle. If you don’t then IMHO you are not. As and insurance adjuster I have seen claims disputed when the vehicles thresholds are not complied with. These thresholds are not arbitrary numbers but numbers affixed for •safe” operation.

When a claim is decided if in the option of the adjuster and many times the courts if you exceed the payload threshold you can be held responsible.

It’s kinda like the speed limit. You are either under it or you are over it. There is no taking in to account how you feel whether you’ve operated in a safe matter., I realize that it can be emotion laden someone operates in an unsafe manner as no one wants to be tagged with that determination.
It’s not based on feelings just metrics.

Therefore I believe safe is the correct determination using payload capability as a metric. If you don’t exceed it you are therefore ok. If you do it’s a violation therefore unsafe.

Where did I ever say anything about being over specs?

Who here is “over” specs?
I can guarantee there are hundreds of people with 1 tons that are not “safe”

[RV Sailor]

Sorry if you thought I was accusing you of being over specsl. You obviously misread or mis interpreted

My comments were meant in general not you specific but it was in you case directed at your irritation of feeling I was accusing people of being unsafe.
If the shoe fits that you are over the specs ( usually payload capacity) then wear it . You are unsafe. If you are not over specs…then the comment was not meant for you so just read on

[NB Canada]

Sorry if you thought I was accusing you of being over specsl. You obviously misread or mis interpreted

My comments were meant in general not you specific but it was in you case directed at your irritation of feeling I was accusing people of being unsafe.
If the shoe fits that you are over the specs ( usually payload capacity) then wear it . You are unsafe. If you are not over specs…then the comment was not meant for you so just read on

But why bring it up?
Who in this thread is over spec?
Or is “close” to a manufacturer number unsafe as well?

[jproctor9]

These thresholds are not arbitrary numbers but numbers affixed for •safe” operation.

I normally don't wade into the weight "wars" but am very curious about the quotes line from your post. So, I'd like to ask your professional, informed opinion.

The F350 and F450 pickups purchased by "consumers" both have GVWR of 14,000lbs. This limit is largely due to state registration requirements for vehicles with GVWR over 14,000lbs.

The F450 uses axles with larger capacity, larger brakes, heavier tires, etc. and therefore ends up with a sticker that shows less payload than a similarly equipped F350. (This makes the sticker ratings seem a bit arbitrary to me and is the basis for my question.)

So...two identically loaded Solitudes are hitched to F450 and F350 trucks and head down the interstate. They stop at a weigh station. The weights show the F350 is right at payload but the F450 is over its stickered payload. They continue down the road and are involved in a pile up. You are called to evaluate the claim for both rigs.

1. Is the F450 driver held to a different level of fault because they exceeded payload on the sticker?

2. Do you factor axle ratings or other capabilities of the respective trucks?

3. Does the insurance company continue insuring the F350 driver but decline the F450 driver due to excess payload? This despite the significant "overbuild" of the F450.

These kinds of questions have always perplexed me when I read these kinds of threads. While I would never advocate operating a vehicle in an unsafe manner, it does seem that these stickers have taken on some elements of being arbitrary - or certainly not solely tied to the capabilities of the vehicle.

Thanks in advance for considering the questions.

[NB Canada]

I normally don't wade into the weight "wars" but am very curious about the quotes line from your post. So, I'd like to ask your professional, informed opinion.

The F350 and F450 pickups purchased by "consumers" both have GVWR of 14,000lbs. This limit is largely due to state registration requirements for vehicles with GVWR over 14,000lbs.

The F450 uses axles with larger capacity, larger brakes, heavier tires, etc. and therefore ends up with a sticker that shows less payload than a similarly equipped F350. (This makes the sticker ratings seem a bit arbitrary to me and is the basis for my question.)

So...two identically loaded Solitudes are hitched to F450 and F350 trucks and head down the interstate. They stop at a weigh station. The weights show the F350 is right at payload but the F450 is over its stickered payload. They continue down the road and are involved in a pile up. You are called to evaluate the claim for both rigs.

1. Is the F450 driver held to a different level of fault because they exceeded payload on the sticker?

2. Do you factor axle ratings or other capabilities of the respective trucks?

3. Does the insurance company continue insuring the F350 driver but decline the F450 driver due to excess payload? This despite the significant "overbuild" of the F450.

These kinds of questions have always perplexed me when I read these kinds of threads. While I would never advocate operating a vehicle in an unsafe manner, it does seem that these stickers have taken on some elements of being arbitrary - or certainly not solely tied to the capabilities of the vehicle.

Thanks in advance for considering the questions.

Imo it is just typical insurance companies doing whatever humanly possible to deny claims
Based solely on profit and zero scientific evidence. They make a used car salesman a saint

[rmcrowe]

Purchasing 2023 Imagine 2500RL. Will be pulling with 2021 GMC 1500,stand bed,extra cab,4x4, denali., 3.0 duramx
This is a longer trailer than used to. Hoping wont squat to much.

We pulled our 2500rl with an f150 for about a year or so before we upgraded the truck to an f250. It pulled okay with the 150 but lots better with the 250. I was able to get into the 250 for a good deal and timing was good for me, but it it hadnt been i'd still be pulling it with the f150 and i would not be sweating it much.