2150michael
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2020
- Messages
- 11
Read to the end, surprising finish! Grand Design was very adamant that it was impossible for their product to be the problem! Our first problem started First of August 2020. Final resolution was first of November. No sorry for the inconvenience from Grand Design!
Here's some correspondence with Grand Design warranty department.
Electrical Issues
Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 8:19 AM
Good Morning,
This is what I know…
Yesterday, Thursday, 9/24, I spoke with both the service manager and the service technician with Grand Design. Both were well aware of the issues we are having as the service technician is the person dealing with Nichols RV in Eustis. They both said this is not an RV issue; it is a surge issue as an RV doesn’t generate its own electricity and would not cause the damage it has done. When all 110-volt appliances are damaged, it is a surge.
The independent electrician had already told me the same thing when I had him check the RV on 9/22. On his bill, he commented “the surge protector needs to be checked out, but seems to be working at this time,” which tells me that even though all the surge protectors we tried on Wednesday, 9/23, were not giving any error messages, it does not necessarily mean they were working properly. In fact, I’m not sure if the two surge protectors Louie provided even had read-outs so how would we know other than the “on” light?
I have had intermittent, random power bumps throughout the summer. They were short and insignificant—only an inconvenience for resetting the clocks. Each time I checked with others in the park to ask if they had similar experiences. They had not. The first significant event happened 8/10 with an actual outage. I can verify that date with Nichols RV. Since then I called Nichols RV two more times in August with two more significant events. All were random, all were inadequately explained, and none occurred during identical weather patterns.
Another event occurred sometime while I was in Washington State. When I left, the air conditioners, washer, and central vac were not working. When I got home two weeks later, the refrigerator had also lost power as well as the little beverage cooler that held some of Michael’s refrigeration-required medication. Within the first few days of returning, the air conditioners and beverage cooler regained power. How? I don’t know since I have not seen anyone from Nichols RV since I’ve returned.
Yesterday, while doing my research, I also spoke with two electrical engineers in
Washington, whom I worked closely with during my 35-year career as a Maintenance Analyst with The Boeing Company. They also agreed it was unlikely the issues came from the rig itself. Two of the error codes I got on the surge protector in mid-August were “open ground” and “reverse polarity” which, they said, is most likely a wiring problem within the park.
If we turn this into the insurance company, they will subrogate and go after both Duke
Energy and the park as they have already paid a claim in early 2019 for the same issue on the same site with the same power source. Insurance companies are in business to collect premiums, not pay out losses, so they will go to great lengths to recoup their loss. By the way, in case you didn’t know, before Michael retired, he had a 35-year career in his own insurance business, which dealt primarily with commercial clients. I only state this because he knows the likely outcome of the insurance company’s response.
Even though I was almost convinced on Wednesday that the rig was the problem, after speaking to the electrician, Grand Design, two electrical engineers and re-reading my notes from Duke Energy, I am now very skeptical that it is. I know other people in the park have had random issues. I know Kim and Jim Swan were reimbursed by Duke Energy. We all know the park has old, obsolete, and according to the electrician, uninsurable equipment if the same equipment was used on residential property. We were told at the very first Meet and Greet that Haines Creek RV had serious electrical issues. We, obviously, knew that already because of our first event. I know that even though neither the surge protectors nor the pedestals we watched on Wednesday recorded a failure, it doesn’t mean there isn’t one waiting to happen.
There were two things I found rather profound in my investigation. One - Grand Design firmly stands by their product. The GD Solitude is one of the highest rated luxury 5th-wheel RVs currently being manufactured. I researched their forums and found nothing to indicate electrical issues. The service manager told me to retain an attorney as he has experienced problems with campgrounds, RV parks, and inadequate electrical systems. Two – when I called Duke Energy to request a voltage ticket, I was also given the phone number for their Claims Department ((855) 398-2370). Who does that? Do they have so many complaints that they automatically offer the services of the Claims Department? When the tech from Duke Energy responded to the ticket last Friday, 9/18, he spent about five minutes checking the pedestal with his meter and declared everything was okay. He was gone within twenty minutes. Fine. What happened five days later?
As of Wednesday, I’ve moved out. I will not be in residence until this is resolved, however, I can be there if needed. Nichols RV is in constant contact with Grand Design and is doing everything they can to repair the appliances and get things going, but when will this catastrophe happen again? They are putting together a timeline and estimate of repairs, including the cost of the independent electrician. I can’t even fathom a guess as to what it will be.
In God We Trust,
Joy Martinez, (206) 948-5561
Michael M
Attachments
Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 11:53 PM
to John, Matthew, Joy
Matthew and John,
Here are all the invoices for the extensive repairs on our Grand Design Solitude.
We were able to save $500 on the Samsung refrigerator by buying a store demo. It was either that or wait until mid-December, and even that was not guaranteed. Because we've been without a refrigerator since early August and Grand Design didn't step up and ship us a new one, we had no choice. I purchased it at Lowe’s Hardware and am sending you my on-line invoice for $1,086.86.
I am sending you a receipt for the first go around of damages on August 10, 2020. That bill was $989.06.
Nine days later we had a bigger failure! In talking with the electrical engineers, it seems my wife was lucky she didn't burn up in a fire this failure could have caused! All 50 amps went through all the 110-volt appliances, a/c units, and heat pump with nothing but the entire RV serving as a ground. This latest bill is $ 3,883.40. Nichols RV has been very understanding for the past 74 days! I have paid them in full.... I will be expecting a phone call Monday to let me know how soon I will be reimbursed.
We purchased a Grand Design RV because of the positive reviews and the seemingly great quality put into these rigs. But I would like to take this opportunity to show you just a small portion of what we've gone through before this last catastrophic event.
We purchased our RV in February 2020 from LazyDays RV in Tampa, Florida. They had us sign our paperwork before we did our walk-through. First thing I noticed was the washer/dryer door did not close. The door opening was 3/8th of an inch smaller than the door! The door jamb was clearly bowed in the center. Their suggestion was to leave the rig with them, and they would order a door. Unfortunately, we had traveled 1.5 hours to pick up our new RV! We had three dogs with us and nowhere to stay while waiting for a new door to be ordered and come in. I was thoroughly disgusted with the dealer. Their workman installed the upgraded Splendide washer/dryer days earlier and absolutely could not have missed that the door wouldn't close! Several weeks went by and I never heard from LazyDays regarding the laundry room door. I finally called the service department and was told they knew nothing about a door problem and if it was a problem with fit, I'd have to bring the RV in and leave it with their cabinet shop. I again explained that we were snowbirds here in Florida and we had nowhere to stay with our three dogs while LazyDays fixed the problem. The main concern we had when shopping for a new RV was service. LazyDays assured us that they had service techs everywhere so we would never have an issue with repairs. I finally called Grand Design directly and a few days later LazyDays set an appointment for a mobile RV repair shop to come to us. Meanwhile, I looked at the problem with the door. The door was not warped as the LazyDays service tech said. Instead, the problem was that both door jambs were bowed inward. I've sent you pictures of the fit. But the mobile RV repair people showed up and decided we needed a new door. They said they would report back to LazyDays and get one ordered. I made the decision to fix it myself. I called LazyDays and told them to forget the door. They were wasting my time and Grand Design’s reputation was going down the drain fast.
I went to Home Depot and bought a power planer, removed the door jambs and planed 3/16" off both sides. The door now fits like it is supposed to! I did attempt to get reimbursed through LazyDays, but they said forget it. I tried to reason with them, since I had saved them another service call, and assured them a new door wasn't going to solve the problem!
One more disgusting item I'd like to tell you about. The entry door was hard to shut right from the beginning. From the inside, you'd have to use both hands; one to hold the latch open and the other to pull it shut. During our walk-through, we were told all entry doors were hard to close and had to be broken in. By the way, this is our sixth RV over many years, so this is not our first rodeo. A tech used some lube and a hammer. By the time he was done, the catch was bent and still closed very hard. The RV mobile service outfit who tried to give me a new laundry room door did the same thing. He used a hammer and lube! What a shame that on an $85,000 RV, I now have three screw holes in the entry door jamb. Come to find out, the catch was installed upside down and backwards! Because the catch was installed backwards the striker plate taper was on the wrong side for the latch to work properly. And it was put upside down so the dead bolt would work. Nine months later, it still doesn’t work properly, and no, we have not learned to live with it.
Considering the Grand Design Solitude is a highly rated luxury 5th-wheel RV, we are not sure we could recommend it to others. Please change our opinion.
I still need an inverter?? That has not been included in the invoices. Again, if you could send one it would certainly help out. We have no idea how long it will be before one becomes available through Nichols RV.
I ordered a hot water heater element today. Thought after all that's gone on I should check it. I turned off the gas, and we have no hot water! I will not pay Nichols RV for another service call... I can install it myself. Amazon Prime, $36 it will be here Wednesday.
Thank you.
M
After all this our RV tech from Nichols RV said he was coming out and taking apart everything on the Solitude starting from the main power cord connection. I can't figure out how to add pictures to this post so I'll try to explain it. When the tech removed the male connector on the rv, he found the main ground wire burnt and disconnected! At assembly someone didn't tighten the set screw so the white ground wire fell out. This left only the secondary ground (copper wire) for ground. Which meant all electrical appliances,A/C units, inverter, anything on 110 volts was being improperly grounded! Had to go to Lowes for a new Samsung refrigerator. AFter sending the picture of the connection to Grand FDesign they finally decided the problem was on their product! We did finally get reimbursed for all expenses incurred. Although I am being quite patient as my inverter is just now scheduled to be installed.
A few things to add, Our Jensen stereo system/DVD player took a dump, jensen did send us a new one, it didn't last 30 days! TV quit a month later, we chose to replace it with a Samsung and a Bose sound system and blu ray player. And finally, oven quit working and stove won't stay lit on low, "Furrion". Unfortunately no one makes an oven or stove to fit these openings. Grand Design has changed to insignia appliances, I asked the warranty department if I could purchase the newer style and never heard back... Had to order new from Furrion, Out of warranty!!!
Here's some correspondence with Grand Design warranty department.
Electrical Issues
Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 8:19 AM
Good Morning,
This is what I know…
Yesterday, Thursday, 9/24, I spoke with both the service manager and the service technician with Grand Design. Both were well aware of the issues we are having as the service technician is the person dealing with Nichols RV in Eustis. They both said this is not an RV issue; it is a surge issue as an RV doesn’t generate its own electricity and would not cause the damage it has done. When all 110-volt appliances are damaged, it is a surge.
The independent electrician had already told me the same thing when I had him check the RV on 9/22. On his bill, he commented “the surge protector needs to be checked out, but seems to be working at this time,” which tells me that even though all the surge protectors we tried on Wednesday, 9/23, were not giving any error messages, it does not necessarily mean they were working properly. In fact, I’m not sure if the two surge protectors Louie provided even had read-outs so how would we know other than the “on” light?
I have had intermittent, random power bumps throughout the summer. They were short and insignificant—only an inconvenience for resetting the clocks. Each time I checked with others in the park to ask if they had similar experiences. They had not. The first significant event happened 8/10 with an actual outage. I can verify that date with Nichols RV. Since then I called Nichols RV two more times in August with two more significant events. All were random, all were inadequately explained, and none occurred during identical weather patterns.
Another event occurred sometime while I was in Washington State. When I left, the air conditioners, washer, and central vac were not working. When I got home two weeks later, the refrigerator had also lost power as well as the little beverage cooler that held some of Michael’s refrigeration-required medication. Within the first few days of returning, the air conditioners and beverage cooler regained power. How? I don’t know since I have not seen anyone from Nichols RV since I’ve returned.
Yesterday, while doing my research, I also spoke with two electrical engineers in
Washington, whom I worked closely with during my 35-year career as a Maintenance Analyst with The Boeing Company. They also agreed it was unlikely the issues came from the rig itself. Two of the error codes I got on the surge protector in mid-August were “open ground” and “reverse polarity” which, they said, is most likely a wiring problem within the park.
If we turn this into the insurance company, they will subrogate and go after both Duke
Energy and the park as they have already paid a claim in early 2019 for the same issue on the same site with the same power source. Insurance companies are in business to collect premiums, not pay out losses, so they will go to great lengths to recoup their loss. By the way, in case you didn’t know, before Michael retired, he had a 35-year career in his own insurance business, which dealt primarily with commercial clients. I only state this because he knows the likely outcome of the insurance company’s response.
Even though I was almost convinced on Wednesday that the rig was the problem, after speaking to the electrician, Grand Design, two electrical engineers and re-reading my notes from Duke Energy, I am now very skeptical that it is. I know other people in the park have had random issues. I know Kim and Jim Swan were reimbursed by Duke Energy. We all know the park has old, obsolete, and according to the electrician, uninsurable equipment if the same equipment was used on residential property. We were told at the very first Meet and Greet that Haines Creek RV had serious electrical issues. We, obviously, knew that already because of our first event. I know that even though neither the surge protectors nor the pedestals we watched on Wednesday recorded a failure, it doesn’t mean there isn’t one waiting to happen.
There were two things I found rather profound in my investigation. One - Grand Design firmly stands by their product. The GD Solitude is one of the highest rated luxury 5th-wheel RVs currently being manufactured. I researched their forums and found nothing to indicate electrical issues. The service manager told me to retain an attorney as he has experienced problems with campgrounds, RV parks, and inadequate electrical systems. Two – when I called Duke Energy to request a voltage ticket, I was also given the phone number for their Claims Department ((855) 398-2370). Who does that? Do they have so many complaints that they automatically offer the services of the Claims Department? When the tech from Duke Energy responded to the ticket last Friday, 9/18, he spent about five minutes checking the pedestal with his meter and declared everything was okay. He was gone within twenty minutes. Fine. What happened five days later?
As of Wednesday, I’ve moved out. I will not be in residence until this is resolved, however, I can be there if needed. Nichols RV is in constant contact with Grand Design and is doing everything they can to repair the appliances and get things going, but when will this catastrophe happen again? They are putting together a timeline and estimate of repairs, including the cost of the independent electrician. I can’t even fathom a guess as to what it will be.
In God We Trust,
Joy Martinez, (206) 948-5561
Michael M
Attachments
Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 11:53 PM
to John, Matthew, Joy
Matthew and John,
Here are all the invoices for the extensive repairs on our Grand Design Solitude.
We were able to save $500 on the Samsung refrigerator by buying a store demo. It was either that or wait until mid-December, and even that was not guaranteed. Because we've been without a refrigerator since early August and Grand Design didn't step up and ship us a new one, we had no choice. I purchased it at Lowe’s Hardware and am sending you my on-line invoice for $1,086.86.
I am sending you a receipt for the first go around of damages on August 10, 2020. That bill was $989.06.
Nine days later we had a bigger failure! In talking with the electrical engineers, it seems my wife was lucky she didn't burn up in a fire this failure could have caused! All 50 amps went through all the 110-volt appliances, a/c units, and heat pump with nothing but the entire RV serving as a ground. This latest bill is $ 3,883.40. Nichols RV has been very understanding for the past 74 days! I have paid them in full.... I will be expecting a phone call Monday to let me know how soon I will be reimbursed.
We purchased a Grand Design RV because of the positive reviews and the seemingly great quality put into these rigs. But I would like to take this opportunity to show you just a small portion of what we've gone through before this last catastrophic event.
We purchased our RV in February 2020 from LazyDays RV in Tampa, Florida. They had us sign our paperwork before we did our walk-through. First thing I noticed was the washer/dryer door did not close. The door opening was 3/8th of an inch smaller than the door! The door jamb was clearly bowed in the center. Their suggestion was to leave the rig with them, and they would order a door. Unfortunately, we had traveled 1.5 hours to pick up our new RV! We had three dogs with us and nowhere to stay while waiting for a new door to be ordered and come in. I was thoroughly disgusted with the dealer. Their workman installed the upgraded Splendide washer/dryer days earlier and absolutely could not have missed that the door wouldn't close! Several weeks went by and I never heard from LazyDays regarding the laundry room door. I finally called the service department and was told they knew nothing about a door problem and if it was a problem with fit, I'd have to bring the RV in and leave it with their cabinet shop. I again explained that we were snowbirds here in Florida and we had nowhere to stay with our three dogs while LazyDays fixed the problem. The main concern we had when shopping for a new RV was service. LazyDays assured us that they had service techs everywhere so we would never have an issue with repairs. I finally called Grand Design directly and a few days later LazyDays set an appointment for a mobile RV repair shop to come to us. Meanwhile, I looked at the problem with the door. The door was not warped as the LazyDays service tech said. Instead, the problem was that both door jambs were bowed inward. I've sent you pictures of the fit. But the mobile RV repair people showed up and decided we needed a new door. They said they would report back to LazyDays and get one ordered. I made the decision to fix it myself. I called LazyDays and told them to forget the door. They were wasting my time and Grand Design’s reputation was going down the drain fast.
I went to Home Depot and bought a power planer, removed the door jambs and planed 3/16" off both sides. The door now fits like it is supposed to! I did attempt to get reimbursed through LazyDays, but they said forget it. I tried to reason with them, since I had saved them another service call, and assured them a new door wasn't going to solve the problem!
One more disgusting item I'd like to tell you about. The entry door was hard to shut right from the beginning. From the inside, you'd have to use both hands; one to hold the latch open and the other to pull it shut. During our walk-through, we were told all entry doors were hard to close and had to be broken in. By the way, this is our sixth RV over many years, so this is not our first rodeo. A tech used some lube and a hammer. By the time he was done, the catch was bent and still closed very hard. The RV mobile service outfit who tried to give me a new laundry room door did the same thing. He used a hammer and lube! What a shame that on an $85,000 RV, I now have three screw holes in the entry door jamb. Come to find out, the catch was installed upside down and backwards! Because the catch was installed backwards the striker plate taper was on the wrong side for the latch to work properly. And it was put upside down so the dead bolt would work. Nine months later, it still doesn’t work properly, and no, we have not learned to live with it.
Considering the Grand Design Solitude is a highly rated luxury 5th-wheel RV, we are not sure we could recommend it to others. Please change our opinion.
I still need an inverter?? That has not been included in the invoices. Again, if you could send one it would certainly help out. We have no idea how long it will be before one becomes available through Nichols RV.
I ordered a hot water heater element today. Thought after all that's gone on I should check it. I turned off the gas, and we have no hot water! I will not pay Nichols RV for another service call... I can install it myself. Amazon Prime, $36 it will be here Wednesday.
Thank you.
M
After all this our RV tech from Nichols RV said he was coming out and taking apart everything on the Solitude starting from the main power cord connection. I can't figure out how to add pictures to this post so I'll try to explain it. When the tech removed the male connector on the rv, he found the main ground wire burnt and disconnected! At assembly someone didn't tighten the set screw so the white ground wire fell out. This left only the secondary ground (copper wire) for ground. Which meant all electrical appliances,A/C units, inverter, anything on 110 volts was being improperly grounded! Had to go to Lowes for a new Samsung refrigerator. AFter sending the picture of the connection to Grand FDesign they finally decided the problem was on their product! We did finally get reimbursed for all expenses incurred. Although I am being quite patient as my inverter is just now scheduled to be installed.
A few things to add, Our Jensen stereo system/DVD player took a dump, jensen did send us a new one, it didn't last 30 days! TV quit a month later, we chose to replace it with a Samsung and a Bose sound system and blu ray player. And finally, oven quit working and stove won't stay lit on low, "Furrion". Unfortunately no one makes an oven or stove to fit these openings. Grand Design has changed to insignia appliances, I asked the warranty department if I could purchase the newer style and never heard back... Had to order new from Furrion, Out of warranty!!!
Last edited by a moderator:
