22MLE first time out, with freeze warnings

[Harvestmoon]

Fall purchase of our new 22MLE and we are taking it out for weekend trip to check all systems in case we need to take back to the dealer to get any issues fixed. This was the soonest we could pick it up and of course the overnight temps couldn't stay above freezing for a couple of more days. Forecast includes a freeze warning but just barely, as the early morning temps are supposed to drop below the 32F mark for a handful of hours (3-7am) with a low of 29F. Daytime times will be mid-40's. The 22MLE build includes "four season protection package", so I assume a few hours dipping into the freezing range should be "no sweat" for it. Plan to run the gas heater to keep inside temps the 60's, which as I understand it is supposed to also heat the belly. We'll have full hookup but I plan to put some water in the FWT and drain and stow the hose overnight since we do not have a heated hose. Just wondering if there is anything I a missing or other precautions or lessons learned you all have that I should watch out for under these conditions. Really don't want to do something stupid and break something first time out...

This is our second TT but never was out in subfreezing weather in our prior unit (which did NOT have an enclosed or insulated floor) and I would have had it winterized by now. If all goes well we'll be back home Sunday with the new 22MLE and I'll winterize it immediately on arriving home before putting into storage.

 

[stroguy]

You will be fine with the heater. We have gone through two S. Texas winters with no winterizing. That would be a few nights dipping into the 20’s here and there. The heater did a great job of keeping the coach warm. The nose cap will be pretty cold if you sleep with an arm under the pillow. Enjoy the weekend.

 

[Second Chance]

The so-called "Four Seasons" packages are marketing hype. That said, if you fill your fresh water tank, disconnect and drain the hose, and use the main furnace (LP), you should be OK in those temps. You are correct to think about exposure time - it takes a while and several degrees below freezing to get systems below freezing.

Rob

 

[FT4NOW]

The 4 season thing is definitely marketing. Our Reflection had the underbelly with a layer of reflectix and that was the insulation. Our Momentum had the same, but had actual insulation between the subflooring and reflectix. I think you will be ok with your plan, make sure the sewer hoses are also drained, as any standing water in them could freeze.

 

[Harvestmoon]

First night low temp was 28F. We used the gas furnace overnight to keep the belly warm (wanted to test it out anyway) and then an electric space heater after outside temps rose above freezing. Everything in the camper worked fine except for the uncontrollable condensation on the windows. This was despite using a tabletop dehumidifier, leaving blinds up to keep air moving over the windows, and ample use of ventilation even though it meant loosing heat. The next night we had cloud cover and only dropped to a low of 40F and the condensation was very minor. This was an experiment for us and as a matter of personal preference I would not try camping below 40F again in a camper without insulated windows regardless of the other "four season" features.

 

[redfernclan]

Try a dehumidifier. Not a tabletop one that is electronic, but a floor model with an actual compressor and refrigerant. I live in Oregon and we tend to get a lot of rain here so a lot of camping is pretty moist. It has always bugged me to try and heat a space to make it comfortable just to have to open vents of windows to reduce the humidity. Dehumidifier fixes all and helps circulate the air.

 

[goducks14]

I have dual pane windows and never get condensation. It's my 1st trailer with DP windows. Last year we stayed at an RV park for a football game and the TT next to us had the worst condensation I've ever seen. IIRC it was a FR Vibe or similar. It literally looked like they sprayed the inside of the windows with a garden hose.
I'll never own another RV without DP windows. I also live in Oregon and never need to leave any vents or windows open with the current TT. In the past I had to and it was sorta redundant. Like driving in a convertible car with the heat on.
It probably doesn't help that the Imagines only have 1" of foam in the walls either. That means the heaters need to run more and hotter.

 

[Riverbug]

First night low temp was 28F. We used the gas furnace overnight to keep the belly warm (wanted to test it out anyway) and then an electric space heater after outside temps rose above freezing. Everything in the camper worked fine except for the uncontrollable condensation on the windows. This was despite using a tabletop dehumidifier, leaving blinds up to keep air moving over the windows, and ample use of ventilation even though it meant loosing heat. The next night we had cloud cover and only dropped to a low of 40F and the condensation was very minor. This was an experiment for us and as a matter of personal preference I would not try camping below 40F again in a camper without insulated windows regardless of the other "four season" features.

We left home on Friday and still driveway camping until tomorrow (central MN). The overnight temps outside have been in the 20's, with daytime highs in 30 and 40's. We only use the gas furnace and leave it set on 64 at night and 67 during the day. The temp sensor in the front storage bay is always around 45 and the temp sensor in the belly under the shower stays around 50. We wanted to test how long we can go on the 30 gallon fresh water, and running off our 206AH lithium battery. Between the gas water heater and furnace we only made it 3.5 days on the first tank of propane. We still have the OEM converter/charger so it doesn't charge the battery to 100% (more like 70ish). We arrived Friday morning and I plugged in Sunday afternoon although the battery was not depleted yet; it would not have made it through the night. In case any of that is interesting to you given same model and similar locale...

Congrats on your new trailer!

 

[Ynot4me2]

A little late to this thread but we often camp in our 22mle below freezing. We do most of our camping in spring and fall. As long as that furnace is working your fine. As for the condensation on the windows, I don't think there's much that can be done with single pane windows. I had bought a table top dehumidifier but that didn't do much. Next step is a regular household dehumidifier.

 

[Harvestmoon]

Try a dehumidifier. Not a tabletop one that is electronic, but a floor model with an actual compressor and refrigerant. I live in Oregon and we tend to get a lot of rain here so a lot of camping is pretty moist. It has always bugged me to try and heat a space to make it comfortable just to have to open vents of windows to reduce the humidity. Dehumidifier fixes all and helps circulate the air.

Great suggestion. How cold is this effective down to? Real dehumidifiers are so big and heavy but I suppose may be essential for this kind of camping.

 

[redfernclan]

We actually have one in the back utility room of our house that is the size of the old paper bags at the grocery store. Works great and is on castors so you can roll it around. When we camp in the summer it is not an issue but when we camp at the coast or when its cooler out, I just grab it out of the back room and we take it in the trailer. So much more enjoyable. Heat is not running trying to keep up with the open windows as we are sitting inside a RV and have to dress warm. Plus your feet getting cold from the thermal layers because the hot air is rising, right out the vent. Yep, I'm getting old. :]

 

[redfernclan]

As far as how they work in the cold, ours in the back room does pretty good down to about 40 degrees, but in an RV, you never get it that cold in there so they are running in there efficiency range and work pretty well.

 

[Harvestmoon]

Well I said we wouldn't do it again but the weather forecast for this past weekend was too perfect to pass up another chance at late season camping. Took the advice of redfernclan and packed up our basement dehumidifier, which is a beastly 50 pint model. Got down to 34F both nights, but condensation was pretty minimal. We were condensing about 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon of water each night, which of course was way more than the tabletop unit was doing. I was concerned about the coils frosting and they did a bit, but it is a self defrosting model and it also helped placing it near one of the heat duct outlets. We had shore power and since no concern about freezing, we ran a 750W electric space heater continuous all night to reduce the propane burn. We set the gas heat at 68F, and it would cycle on starting early in the morning as the outside temp dropped and the electric heater slowly lost ground. If we do more early/late season camping, I'll invest in a more portable residential dehumidifier.

 

[redfernclan]

Glad it worked out for you.

 

[jkwilson]

Standard dehumidifiers quit working effectively around 60 degrees. The coils have to get below the dew point. The dew point gets too low to keep the coils from freezing.

 

[Second Chance]

Standard humidifiers quit working effectively around 60 degrees. The coils have to get below the dew point. The dew point gets too low to keep the coils from freezing.

I'm pretty sure you meant "dehumidifier."

Rob

 

[jkwilson]

I'm pretty sure you meant "dehumidifier."

Rob

Yep. Good catch. I’ll edit to avoid confusion!

 

[ajg617]

Standard dehumidifiers quit working effectively around 60 degrees. The coils have to get below the dew point. The dew point gets too low to keep the coils from freezing.

Wonder how that works with the heat pump? I assume the coils are up in the AC unit and outside. We were using the heat pump in the 30s (granted over 60 inside) and every time it ran, it discharged a lot of water into the gutters.

 

[jkwilson]

Wonder how that works with the heat pump? I assume the coils are up in the AC unit and outside. We were using the heat pump in the 30s (granted over 60 inside) and every time it ran, it discharged a lot of water into the gutters.

Heat pumps are subject to the same physical limits as dehumidifiers, but since the coils on a heat pump are outdoors it’s simple to reverse the operation to clear the ice from the coils.