ABS Brakes – What’s your experience?

[Dew7rtx]

I have a new Solitude 310GK-R manufactured in June 2022, Purchased in August. Build sheet shows 7K axle with ABS brakes. After a little research it appears that Solitudes now come with ABS brakes standard (not sure the exact date this started).

I haven’t taken it on a trip yet…only driving from dealership to storage. However when I tested the trailer brakes while crawling the brakes didn’t “grab” the trailer as I have experienced with previous trailers I’ve owned. The stopping was a “slow roll” to a stop. This was at a gain of 6. Not much difference at a gain of 10. Now I am thinking is there a brake issue or this is just the performance of the ABS at a crawl speed.

What’s your experience with the new ABS brakes?


There is a previous thread stating that Grand Design started using 7,000 lb Curt axles with ABS brakes in May 2022.

 

[jmbopp]

Have you adjusted the brakes? And burnished them in?

 

[Dew7rtx]

No adjustments. Have they been “burnished in”?…I would say maybe. I haven’t towed it much….Normal towing just from dealer to storage and now from storage to home in prep for a trip. Maybe 40ish start and stops. Haven’t noticed any braking deficiencies yet….just the difference when testing them before I pull out.

 

[Gronk1]

They flat tow large 5th wheels from the factory. From Indiana to Texas, I would say your brakes are adjusted (if self-adjusting) & burnished-but maybe not correctly.
I would check the adjustment though.

 

[DougW9876]

I would have the adjustment checked and make sure it is set properly. Self adjusting brakes do a pretty good job of maintaining adjustment, they don’t do a good job of correcting improper adjustment.

Also, on Fords, I have heard they will not put full brake power when you are going at parking lot speeds. I know if I hit the controller on my trailer when first starting out I can feel the brakes but they don’t grab all that strong yet on the road they work very well.

 

[kkmacs]

I am wondering if you have solved for this. I have new Reflection 315rlts that has Curt ABS. The brakes feel almost non-existent at times and if I have the gain set to 5 or 6 they may be working at highway speeds but when I am coming off the freeway and need to slow quickly I feel the trailer pushing me and as I get to pushing the brakes hard down around 20 mph the brakes on the trailer lock and skid. If I turn the gain way down to 2.5 they wont lock but I feel nothing as I slow down and then suddenly they grab and jolt us to a stop. Took truck (2019 RAM 2500) to get the trailer brake controller checked and took rig back to the dealer and they said they put it on “the box” and the brakes worked normally. If you are just rolling very slowly and squeeze the brake controller can can feel and hear the brakes engaging and it does get stronger as you turn the gain up. If you squeeze them controller at 20 mph the first squeeze gets a response but after that, nothing. Any ideas? I traded in a Jayco that was about 1500lbs less than this and never had any issues with the brakes or truck controller.

 

[Dew7rtx]

kkmacs,

I believe my issue/concern is resolved. Took my first long trip to Florida from Texas in Nov 2022. The brakes worked well and didn’t notice any braking deficiency versus previous 5th wheels I owned. During the trip I noticed that applying the brake controller (while idling out of a campsite) the brakes now grab and stop the trailer from a roll. I am running at a gain of 6.

With respect to your situation….I would be concerned if the brakes feel non-existent and then lock up the wheels when decelerating down to 20 mph. I am sorry I can’t provide any more insight to your brake situation. If you have concerns about the Dealer’s Testing I would probably find a Trailer Repair facility and have them inspected/tested.

 

[G&A-Unbound]

I have a new 2023 324mbs with Curt Axles and ABS brakes. I agree, they SUCK! And yes, they have been adjusted and burnished in. I have my breal gain at 8.5 and they don't grab near as well as my older 2021 Reflection. Had I been given a choice I would have stuck with the tried and true older electric brakes.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

I have a new 2023 324mbs with Curt Axles and ABS brakes. I agree, they SUCK! And yes, they have been adjusted and burnished in. I have my breal gain at 8.5 and they don't grab near as well as my older 2021 Reflection. Had I been given a choice I would have stuck with the tried and true older electric brakes.

How do these differ from the standard electric brakes? I've never heard what the differences are between the ABS brakes, and standard trailer brakes. TIA.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Short answer, they don't - until the wheel tries to lock up.

If the wheels aren't locking up, they act like standard brakes.


Like any other ABS system, when the wheel stops spinning, the circuitry unlocks the brakes to get them spinning again.

With more modern algorithms, the system detects the sudden jerk in rotation that happens just BEFORE the wheel locks and lessens the force on that wheel, so it won't.


You should set your brake controller to its maximum setting and let the ABS modulate the trailer brakes.


It is the same as stomping on the brake pedal and let it pulse, as has been taught since ABS appeared on cars a few years ago.

It took folks FOREVER to break the habit of a lifetime and stop trying to modulate their own brakes.

Electronics are a lot faster than the human nervous system.


Let the system do its job.

Yes, I'm well aware of how an ABS system works, but that is for disc brakes and a quick reacting system. How do they work with a magnetic activated brake system that actually has to turn to activate the braking action? The time lag is huge compared to a disc brake system, so I'm not sure how well an ABS would work.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

"The type of system on our RVs has been used on Over The Road trucks for decades."

Don't most Over The Road trucks use air brakes, and not electric-magnetic brakes?

 

[G&A-Unbound]

Yes, I'm well aware of how an ABS system works, but that is for disc brakes and a quick reacting system. How do they work with a magnetic activated brake system that actually has to turn to activate the braking action? The time lag is huge compared to a disc brake system, so I'm not sure how well an ABS would work.

"Short Answer"..THEY DON'T work near as well. No where are you instructed to set your controller to max gain. I have researched and called GD and they say my controller should be set about the same as it was with previous Non ABS... Well if I did that, I'd have zero brakes when first applied. What Ive noticed is it feels like a delay in the braking response. Once I start to brake, there is no feeling of the trailer slowing, in fact it feels like its pushing me, after a few seconds and as I increase brake pedal pressure I begin to slightly feel the trailer brakes. Same when doing a tug test. There is NO IMMEDIATE brake action. The trailer will move about 6" then the brakes will start to grab. And that with the brake controller fully actuated! My prior 5th wheels would grab and hold immediately.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

My main problem is I don't see how electric-magnetic drum brakes will work very well at all with an ABS system. ABS works great on disc brakes due to the ability to cycle the brakes much quicker than you can manually. But there is no way for any kind of speedy apply-disengage-apply-disengage system to work with electric-magnetic brakes. Or I'm really missing something, which is certainly possible. I guess, maybe, the advantage would be that the trailer brakes are engaged, and disengaged without affecting the truck brakes at the same time. But it certainly makes no sense to have the brakes slower to engage than brakes without ABS.

But honestly, I don't think I've ever heard people complaining about their trailer brakes being too strong, and locking up all the time.

 

[G&A-Unbound]

Nope!

That is for ALL ABSs.




The same way - they just use differently-mounted sensors.


Disk brake systems have to clamp to activate the braking action.


The reaction time is the same.

Clamp a disk, jam a drum - makes no difference to the ABS.


You are still going to have a Hall Effect Sensor and an magnet involved for timing.

The only difference is that the magnet is mounted to a drum, instead of a disc.





What time lag?

That Hall Effect Sensor is going to detect a magnet spinning on a drum just as fast as it will detect a magnet spinning on a disc.


If you are talking about the time lag between jamming your foot on the brake and the pads clamping or jamming, the difference is negligible, as both are actuated by the same hydraulics.

Brake fluid line internal diameters have far more effect on braking actuation speed than a sixteenth-of-an-inch difference in pad travel.


You, also, have to remember that an ABS merely modulates the pressure on the pads.

It does not release them and clamp them back, again.


So, it wouldn't matter if, from fully on to fully off, one system only moved a micron and the other moved a foot.

The ABS is not going to lift the pad completely off the disc or drum.


The only possible difference in actuation time between disc and drum is the initial travel from "at rest" to contact.

That has nothing to do with ABSs.

I have no idea where you are getting your information from... GD specifically told me NOT to max out my controller gain. They said if that is necessary then something is wrong. There is NO "Spinning Magnet" And there is a huge lag in response time compared to all my previous 5th wheels. And I do understand how ABS is SUPPOSED to work... But these units are not operating in that way. At least in my experience.

 

[Hoopy Frood]

Nope!

That is for ALL ABSs.




The same way - they just use differently-mounted sensors.


Disk brake systems have to clamp to activate the braking action.


The reaction time is the same.

Clamp a disk, jam a drum - makes no difference to the ABS.


You are still going to have a Hall Effect Sensor and an magnet involved for timing.

The only difference is that the magnet is mounted to a drum, instead of a disc.





What time lag?

That Hall Effect Sensor is going to detect a magnet spinning on a drum just as fast as it will detect a magnet spinning on a disc.


If you are talking about the time lag between jamming your foot on the brake and the pads clamping or jamming, the difference is negligible, as both are actuated by the same hydraulics.

Brake fluid line internal diameters have far more effect on braking actuation speed than a sixteenth-of-an-inch difference in pad travel.


You, also, have to remember that an ABS merely modulates the pressure on the pads.

It does not release them and clamp them back, again.


So, it wouldn't matter if, from fully on to fully off, one system only moved a micron and the other moved a foot.

The ABS is not going to lift the pad completely off the disc or drum.


The only possible difference in actuation time between disc and drum is the initial travel from "at rest" to contact.

That has nothing to do with ABSs.

No offense, but you really need to look at how an electric-magnetic trailer brake actually works. I don't think you're completely clear on the workings. For one thing there is no hydraulics on a electric-magnetic brake system. When the relay is tripped to apply brakes to the trailer by stepping on the truck brake pedal, the magnet is energized and attracted to the spinning brake drum, and actuates, with physical linkage, the brake shoes, which are then applied. With most inertial systems, the more the truck tries to stop, the more amperage is applied to the brake magnet and the harder it presses to the drum and increases the braking power. That is where the time lag comes in: when the brake is released, it has to have the magnet re-energized to start braking again.

 

[G&A-Unbound]

What you are missing is that they DON'T apply-disengage-apply-disengage.

They modulate pressure.

It's more of a "push less - push more - push less - push more" action.


100% correct.

The ABS on the RV is completely independent of the ABS on the truck.



That is because it doesn't happen.



I HAVE wondered if this wasn't a solution in search of a problem!

You seriously have an issue.... MOVE ON! We don't need YOUR HELP! You are WRONG on so many levels...
Have a Good Day!

 

[Hoopy Frood]

You seriously have an issue.... MOVE ON! We don't need YOUR HELP! You are WRONG on so many levels...
Have a Good Day!

Yeah, I'm done too. I think I may have pulled a hamstring with so much jumping to conclusions.

 

[420CHem]

I have a new Solitude 310GK-R manufactured in June 2022, Purchased in August. Build sheet shows 7K axle with ABS brakes. After a little research it appears that Solitudes now come with ABS brakes standard (not sure the exact date this started).

I haven’t taken it on a trip yet…only driving from dealership to storage. However when I tested the trailer brakes while crawling the brakes didn’t “grab” the trailer as I have experienced with previous trailers I’ve owned. The stopping was a “slow roll” to a stop. This was at a gain of 6. Not much difference at a gain of 10. Now I am thinking is there a brake issue or this is just the performance of the ABS at a crawl speed.

What’s your experience with the new ABS brakes?


There is a previous thread stating that Grand Design started using 7,000 lb Curt axles with ABS brakes in May 2022.

We bought a new 2023 Grand Design Reflection 370FLS, just after 5K miles, we already have metal on metal on one of our ABS brake system, just repaired and they replaced the hub and all four brake pads. 6 miles out of the repair shop our TPMS is showing temps on driver side spiking to 90 degrees while passenger side remains around 55. Waiting on phone call from tech to answer why.