Arctic Insulation

This is another clue that your 6 year old unit has had the underbelly opened up previously. And whover did it skipped putting the insulation back in it. Who knows what else was done....or not done.

Well, my 6 year old unit didn't look like the underliner was ever removed, but maybe they were experts at it. Also that magical silver blanket was completely intact until I cut it to get at the water tank mounts. And I would suggest that if actual insulation had been installed (and removed as you suggest), that would have interfered with the airflow from the heating vents under the floor that are supposed to keep the water lines from freezing. It would make no sense to put in air vents and then block with the air flow with insulation. But it also made no sense to put in a 40 gallon water tank and not support it properly, so maybe they did.

I seem to have really upset you because I expected a properly designed and constructed trailer, even as the second owner, and there are a few design flaws, that were later corrected in following years. You seem upset that I voiced my complaint to Grand Design, who has shown goodwill and agreed to replace the damaged parts, and I have tried to alert other owners of the possible danger in their own RV. I expected Grand Design to stand behind their engineering, even six years later, and they did. Why does that upset you?
 
Interestingly, I just measured my vents, and 2 out of 3 are 13"x13" and only 1 is 14"x14". Do you have the same issue and just jam the 14" one into the 13" hole? I can't seem to find 13"x13" one.

Mark, I have the same problem. Mine are all 13 x 13. A search on Amazon shows all 14 x 14. Anybody have any ideas or do we just smoosch them in the holes?

Cheers,
PapaZ
 
Mark, I have the same problem. Mine are all 13 x 13. A search on Amazon shows all 14 x 14. Anybody have any ideas or do we just smoosch them in the holes?

Cheers,
PapaZ

I have yet to find a 13X13 one and I have not yet bought a 14x14 to see if I can smoosch it.
 
I have yet to find a 13X13 one and I have not yet bought a 14x14 to see if I can smoosch it.

As an update, I bought a pack of three of these "pillows. They fit the regular manual vents fine. They smoosch in with a nice tight fit. However, they will not fit the 13" x 13" power vents. Those are tilted and have less interior depth to fit. The pillows are too thick. So, we're going to unzip them and remove /trim the interior stuffing and see f that will work. We will be wintering in Nebraska, and am trying to get prepared.

Cheers,
PapaZ
 
Primary reason I bought my Grand Design was the so called "Artic Insulation Package". I only use mine during October, November and part of December. Contrary to popular belief, it can and does get cold here in Tennessee. If I did not use a supplemental heater, it would be fairly cool in my RV. Additionally, if I'm alone (most of the time) and the forecast is for freezing weather, I do not open the slide. This really helps. I feel like I have been deceived. I have a very wealthy friend who is a consumer advocate and wants to buy my RV. He wants to take it apart piece by piece to expose Grand Design's disingenuous marketing. Anyone familiar with Ronald Burdge?
 
Primary reason I bought my Grand Design was the so called "Artic Insulation Package". I only use mine during October, November and part of December. Contrary to popular belief, it can and does get cold here in Tennessee. If I did not use a supplemental heater, it would be fairly cool in my RV. Additionally, if I'm alone (most of the time) and the forecast is for freezing weather, I do not open the slide. This really helps. I feel like I have been deceived. I have a very wealthy friend who is a consumer advocate and wants to buy my RV. He wants to take it apart piece by piece to expose Grand Design's disingenuous marketing. Anyone familiar with Ronald Burdge?

Yeah, he's a Lemon Law attorney....

Not sure why you would need supplemental heat in Tennessee, but here in PA I have yet to camp in weather that I need more than the furnace.

What brand of GD do you have? Are you expecting full time living out of an Imagine? Don't know what you have.

Tell him to buy 1 of each brand (Keystone, FR, etc) and do a comparison. Rent a cold chamber (like GD does) to have accurate testing.
 
Primary reason I bought my Grand Design was the so called "Artic Insulation Package". I only use mine during October, November and part of December. Contrary to popular belief, it can and does get cold here in Tennessee. If I did not use a supplemental heater, it would be fairly cool in my RV. Additionally, if I'm alone (most of the time) and the forecast is for freezing weather, I do not open the slide. This really helps. I feel like I have been deceived. I have a very wealthy friend who is a consumer advocate and wants to buy my RV. He wants to take it apart piece by piece to expose Grand Design's disingenuous marketing. Anyone familiar with Ronald Burdge?

I’m not familiar with him but, in all fairness, GD is not the only one marketing that type of “package”. Some mfgs will call it Four Seasons Package or something like that. Some will have better r values than others but common sense dictates that none of these things will hold up in prolonged sub freezing or desert conditions. We’re going to live in ours this winter in Nebraska. And we know going in that we will go thru more propane, need added heat such as space heaters and the electric fireplace. And added window insulation and skirting.
Just relying on a marketing phrase that it’ll hold up in the Arctic is just foolish.
Tell your friend not to waste his time.
Just my 2 cents worth

Cheers!
PapaZ
 
I bought it but havent picked it up yet as it is still cold hear in very northern MN. 2020 reflections 273mk 5ver.
Said to have r40 in the roof/sealing, r30 in floor, and r9 in the walls. That said, true or not, it will still be wayyyyy, better than the 2017 forest river grey wolf 26bh it is replacing i had for 8 years and lived in full time. AND, yep that thing went downhill fast not the best built.
I spent the winter in it before retiring to test the lifestyle. The Bath PA, area so not even as close as very norther MN where i am and grew up, but still cold. There were 10 spots for winter, i had one. Each spot had a 100 gallon propane tank dropped off to fill and use. I never had a frozen anything. Skirted, waist/sewer were pvc piped, water hose heat tapped, wrapped with tinfoil then pipe insulation, never needed to let water run/drip, never froze. No need to get into all the ins and outs of fulltime set up, wintering, it would get to lengthy. Also, electric was not metered, so being caught with your hot water on electric, or an electric heater was an instant,,, your out.

That said, i only one time had anything on that thing freeze. That was when i was wintering in Texas a few years ago when things froze up, and lost power. The campground wouldnt allow skirting, and with the cold and high winds, my water froze right where it leaves the tank to come to the pump. Having no electric and no campground water, i was dry camping with generator to keep batteries toped off. If i was allowed to skirt, water wouldnt have frozen.

So,, i am looking forward to fulltiming in the new/used 273mk 5ver. Just having a way better underside covered let alone a heated basement, and on this unit, heated tanks, enclosed docking station. Will be a big improvement of the TT, for cold snaps.
The plan is/was to not get stuck in very cold in the winter, but it happens, not for long periods, but still happens.
I was living in a 40’s bungalow during that freeze of 2021! No power or water for over a week. It was awful! Sounds like you faired better in your camper! Lol!
 
My 2021 Imagine 2500rl has a sticker on the outside of the entrance door that says " Artic Insulation, Four seasons protection." What does this mean exactly? Was this an option when new?
*** I have same question. Following "Second Chance" hyperlink, I wrote to GD to clarify. If I get a reply I will share same if I can get back to "this" discussion. Here's my inquiry to them in brackets . . .
[ Regarding, "Artic Insulation Four Seasons Protection" . . . how would one know STATUS of gray/black tank freeze protection? There is no indicator on Monitor station. (apparently, DSI refers to water heater). I own a 2023 Imagine 2670MK purchased in Wayland Michigan in August 2022 ] ***
 
The word used to indicate more or said more insulation gets very argumentive, i can just say, that the currant grand design 5ver i have, is better insulated than any other camper i have had. I have winter camped, i spent the hole winter in Bath PA before retireing and hitting the road, in a forest river TT, and nothing froze any where on anything. So some prep is needed for the temps to be spent in.

My experience, it takes an awful lot to freeze a tank, or tanks simple enclosed in the under belly. It is easy to freeze a water line though, or exposed dump valve. Just wrapping dump valves with reflexit insulation, i have never had one freeze.
 
*** I have same question. Following "Second Chance" hyperlink, I wrote to GD to clarify. If I get a reply I will share same if I can get back to "this" discussion. Here's my inquiry to them in brackets . . .
[ Regarding, "Artic Insulation Four Seasons Protection" . . . how would one know STATUS of gray/black tank freeze protection? There is no indicator on Monitor station. (apparently, DSI refers to water heater). I own a 2023 Imagine 2670MK purchased in Wayland Michigan in August 2022 ] ***
The Imagine series does not have tank heater pads. The only way to know the status of your tanks is that if nothing comes out when you pull the valve, it is probably frozen.

The underbelly where the tanks and water lines are is directly heated from a dedicated furnace vent. Run the furnace should keep the tanks working. Using an electric heater and not using the furnace will get you frozen lines and tanks.
 

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